# 2004 Presidential Debates **URL:** \ **Category:** talk\ **Created:** [September 29, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796 "2004-09-29T17:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/41 "2004-10-01T19:24:23Z")
> [@kirupa](#): > > While Kerry may have won the debate, he hasn’t gained any new voters. Here is the larger analysis: [http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/Default.aspx?ci=13237](http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/Default.aspx?ci=13237) > > Another paraphrased article: [http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column\_article.asp?id=10352&cid=15&cname=Politics](http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=10352&cid=15&cname=Politics) > > [size=1] **jonesin/others: play nice 🙂** [/size] > > :cap: Still might be too early to tell, next debate should be fun (Town Hall), but thats what I expected, even Fox news says Kerry won the debate [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134223,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134223,00.html) But like kirupa says, if he gets not votes out of it, it might not matter that much. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/42 "2004-10-01T19:28:04Z")
> [@jonesin](#): > > As for your earlier statement assuming that I meant deficit. Im glad that you assumed that. National Debt and National Deficit are the same thing. now as much as I enjoyed you’re over simplification of another poor Bush-ite, I have to take issue with your fiscal analysis… as per [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): deficit: A negative retained earnings balance. A deficit results when the accumulated losses and dividend payments of a business exceed its earnings. debt: An obligation or liability to pay or render something to someone else. Deficit is the interest paid on prior years debts as well as current years expenses. Debt being the total owing 😉 As much as I hate to admit it, Texan #1 with the arguementative streak is right… WAY right… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/43 "2004-10-01T19:31:40Z")
> [@3rdeye](#): > > now as much as I enjoyed you’re over simplification of another poor Bush-ite, I have to take issue with your fiscal analysis… > > as per [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): > > deficit: A negative retained earnings balance. A deficit results when the accumulated losses and dividend payments of a business exceed its earnings. > > debt: An obligation or liability to pay or render something to someone else. > > they might seem similar but in fact the deficit is determined by the debt. Deficit is the interest paid on prior years debts as well as current years expenses. So Bush by paying all his cronies from the public coffers is increasing the debt and therefore the deficit for next year. Thank you for the explaination. I hope everyone uderstand the difference now. As for the Bush spending money. Let us not forget that Congress is the body that allocates money to be spent. The poblems of deficits and debt belong to the Congress not the Executive branch. President Bush has a plan that Congress is looking at to be back in a supluss and not deficit in 5 years. Congress has not acted on it yet. Be careful where you are placing blame. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/44 "2004-10-01T19:32:23Z")
> [@blindlizard](#): > > What?? What is more free than having the option to not buy a product when you know the money you spend will be used for political purposes contrary to your beliefs. I will have you know that I was an avid Bud drinker before the recal election in Cal. I have decided that in these political times that where I spend my money will have an impact. Im Kidding you goofball!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/45 "2004-10-01T19:33:35Z")
🍺 sorry you caught me off-gaurd there. Here have a Miller Lite. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/46 "2004-10-01T19:33:38Z")
> [@RussianBeer](#): > > Still might be too early to tell, next debate should be fun (Town Hall), but thats what I expected, even Fox news says Kerry won the debate [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134223,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134223,00.html) > > But like kirupa says, if he gets not votes out of it, it might not matter that much. In several pre-debate polls, only about 12 or so percent of people said they would “consider” changing their vote based on the polls. Most voters seem to have already made up their minds. Also, this debate, while Kerry won it, did not contain anything new or newsworthy that would cause any major shift in support for either candidate. Nothing short of either one of them going to the other side of the stage and drop-kicking the other person or claiming to be a Communist will affect most people’s perceptions of either of them. Also, interesting to note that, is even after the debate, Kerry made no progress among voters in the main topic of “who will be better to lead the war against Iraq”, “strong leader”, etc. Kerry may have a chance, but he really needed this debate to break out of the status-quo. Right now, 3 of the 4 news networks are covering the volcano (one is covering Scott Peterson) - the debate was just not newsworthy or all that interesting in hindsight imo. The town-hall format will definitely be better, but the number of people who watch the 2nd debate is considerably less than those who watch the first one. In other words, only the seriously interested people (usually not the undecided) will be watching. :ear: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/47 "2004-10-01T19:40:10Z")
Another thing to remeber is that some of those “undecideds” won’t go to the polls in november. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/48 "2004-10-01T19:43:11Z")
> [@blindlizard](#): > > 🍺 sorry you caught me off-gaurd there. Here have a Miller Lite. dude you seem like a pretty intelligent bi-ped, so why the militant defense of someone we all should aknowledge as no better than his opposition? Do you truly believe Bush is somehow exempt from corporate control? Do you think Busch didn’t fund Arnie as well? Come on… it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a standard betting practise, identify the two leading horses, place equal bets according to their payout and watch the money roll in… and since there’s no third or fourth or fifth runner, YOU’RE ALWAYS GUARANTEED A WIN! Bush has no more interest in you than Kerry, and if sending you to die half the world around meant another $100 million in campaign finances you can bet your bottom dollar you’d be sweating in your 40lbs of armor ASAP! This is how they win though, by polarizing otherwise intelligent humans into two options, black or white and never letting any other idea get a word in edge wise… You’ll continue to lose as long as you see one or the other as the saving grace for all of americas decay! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/49 "2004-10-01T19:44:04Z")
However, 12 percent is a significant ammount, if Kerry can get get that 12% he will burry Bush. 12 can easily decide the election, while I doubt under the best circumstances he will ever get 12, if he can get some of that it will give him a substantial gain. Plus the debate gives him advantages in other ways, even for me, he was alot diffrent from the Kerry that criticizm plays him at, he was not cartoony or undecisive, as this was watched by millions of people of all sides of the politcal spectrum this will covey a diffrent image of Kerry, of one in control, cool, level headed, I was suprised to be honest. But the counter-punch is again, the Bush capaign wasn’t, they new he had a reputation as a good speaker, and he upeld it during the debate, I am sure they have a cotingency plan for it. But the other debates could be diffrent, esspecialy town-hall. Where I think bush is good at talking to regular people. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/50 "2004-10-01T19:52:13Z")
something about this link reminded me of this thread 😉 [no Kerry, no Bush](http://news.myway.com/odd/article/id/430446%7Coddlyenough%7C10-01-2004::10:28%7Creuters.html) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/51 "2004-10-01T20:01:30Z")
> [@3rdeye](#): > > dude you seem like a pretty intelligent bi-ped, so why the militant defense of someone we all should aknowledge as no better than his opposition? Do you truly believe Bush is somehow exempt from corporate control? Do you think Busch didn’t fund Arnie as well? Come on… it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a standard betting practise, identify the two leading horses, place equal bets according to their payout and watch the money roll in… and since there’s no third or fourth or fifth runner, YOU’RE ALWAYS GUARANTEED A WIN! Bush has no more interest in you than Kerry, and if sending you to die half the world around meant another $100 million in campaign finances you can bet your bottom dollar you’d be sweating in your 40lbs of armor ASAP! This is how they win though, by polarizing otherwise intelligent humans into two options, black or white and never letting any other idea get a word in edge wise… You’ll continue to lose as long as you see one or the other as the saving grace for all of americas decay! I do not acknowlegde that Bush is no better than Kerry. The difference are astronomical. I believe Bush does what he thinks is right. He didn’t send people to die for money, France Russia Germany and China were allowing Iraqis to die for money in the oil for food scandle. These are the same countries Kerry wants “helping” in Iraq now. I think that when it comes to national defense I want someone that will fight the fight without worring about what some country in Europe says. I think when it comes to the economy, Kerry will tax us back into a recession. You cannot give a tax cut to one group to grow the economy. Reagan showed that as you lower taxes, you create more jobs, those jobs then generate more taxes. The government gets more money and the people keep more money it is that simple. Kerry talks about the rich getting a tax break being bad…who do you think creates jobs. I have never seen a job created by a poor person. Most of the jobs created in America are created by small businesses and most small businesses pay taxes at the individuall income tax level. Taxing the “rich” is taxing small businesses and stoping the creation of jobs. I also think Kerry wants to create a welfare state where the government gives you health care…when the government gives something, all it is doing is putting a gun to the head of someone else to steal what they have to give to someone else. I think president Bush’s plan to allow inviduals to have the leverage to pay for their own health care is the way to go. I know it is nice easy and fun to say that both people running are the same and it makes no difference, but that is a weak argument. Especially in this race, the difference are great. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/52 "2004-10-01T20:16:10Z")
> [@blindlizard](#): > > I know it is nice easy and fun to say that both people running are the same and it makes no difference, but that is a weak argument. Especially in this race, the difference are great. it’s a fools errand to push water up hill, and I’m too fat to fly… but I’ll give it one more go… I’m sorry for yah, I know it seems so clear cut for you and the white light you see all around is blinding you to any other options… I’m sure one day you’ll come to realise you are just as much a robot as you have been taught to be. Until then I wish you the best of luck! Try not to kill to many civilians ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/53 "2004-10-01T20:20:06Z")
> [@3rdeye](#): > > it’s a fools errand to push water up hill, and I’m too fat to fly… but I’ll give it one more go… I’m sorry for yah, I know it seems so clear cut for you and the white light you see all around is blinding you to any other options… I’m sure one day you’ll come to realise you are just as much a robot as you have been taught to be. Until then I wish you the best of luck! Try not to kill to many civilians :flower: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/54 "2004-10-02T18:09:34Z")
It’s fun to see how subjective people can get… Vote Kerry! He’ll steal money from the US and inject it back in France. At least, do it for the Frenchmen! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796/55 "2004-10-02T22:51:10Z")
> [@Pomme\_](#): > > It’s fun to see how subjective people can get… > > Vote Kerry! He’ll steal money from the US and inject it back in France. At least, do it for the Frenchmen! Only if you get me some croissants! and wine! [Previous page](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/2004-presidential-debates/65796.md?page=2)