# Flash: 99% Bad! (What tha \*\*\*!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 23, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311 "2004-08-23T08:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sky\_vault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@sky\_vault](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/sky_vault)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/1 "2004-08-23T08:10:05Z")
Some classic flash bashing from wayback year of 2000!!! Check it out. [http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html](http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html) “[color=red]Flash tends to degrade websites for three reasons: it encourages design abuse, it breaks with the Web’s fundamental interaction principles, and it distracts attention from the site’s core value.” [/color] [color=#ff0000]:h:[/color] [color=#ff0000][/color] [color=black]WOW!!![/color] ---
**Author:** ![radioxromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@radioxromance](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/radioxromance)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 8:42am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/2 "2004-08-23T08:42:45Z")
interesting… I don’t know what I thought of flash, if I thought of it at all, back in 2000. What really comes to mind here is what three-letter bad-word did you use there, cause the phrase I see most readily I have never heard, but it seems hysterical for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![andr\_in](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/andr_in/32/37_2.png) [@andr\_in](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/andr_in)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/3 "2004-08-23T09:22:06Z")
This text is like made up by some dood who’s mission is to turn every good into bad > the use of Flash typically lowers usability > like… eerrr if the flash design is bad it’s probably some noob’s personal site and is useless to the user anyway > And even if it is a company’s website that the user was looking for then it shows how proffessional that company is > Splash pages were an early sin of abusive Web design. > Now what in the world is wrong with splash pages? If I see a splash page I’m being abused? :h: > Flash intros that have the same obnoxious effect: They delay users’ ability to get what they came for. On the upside, most Flash intros feature a “skip intro” button. However, their very existence encourages design abuse in several ways. > See…? He’s trying to turn every thing bad… first ‘intros delay the users’ ability to get what they came for’ .ooo…kkkk… and then oh good… the skip button was invented BUT THAT’S BAD TOO! 🍺 “their very existence encourages design abuse in several ways.” riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight 😉 > And, even if the new design was workable, it would still reduce a site’s overall usability because users would have to figure out how it worked. > Yeah… like I always have trouble if I see a scrollbar that doesn’t look exactly like the windoze one which i totally love 😉 > The “Make text bigger/smaller” button does not work. Users are thus forced to read text in the designer-specified font size, which is almost always too small since designers tend to have excellent vision. > Oh yeah! using “px” units in css is bad too I know > Frequently updating content (Flash content tends to be created once and then left alone). > That’s the owners problem… and professional sites use server side scripts and databases > Providing informative content that answers users’ key questions at all depth levels (Flash content is typically superficial). > I don’t even understand this one > Identifying better ways to support customers by task analyzing their real problems (Flash is typically created by outside agents who don’t understand the business). > I don’t really think most of the html sites are created by “inline” agents who do understand the “business” :to: > A very important usability improvement is that Flash now ships with a standard set of interaction controls > Components? I consider them as a big minus… cuz now every noob uses the component and there’s no point for the real programmers to code their own… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@Johnny64](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Johnny64)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/4 "2004-08-23T09:38:49Z")
> [@Syko](#): > > I don’t really think most of the html sites are created by “inline” agents who do understand the “business” :to: :lol:ROFL ---
**Author:** ![pom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@pom](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/pom)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:40am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/5 "2004-08-23T09:40:41Z")
Syko, I don’t think you understood what that guy wants to say, which is: > it makes bad design more likely, it breaks with the Web’s fundamental interaction style, and it consumes resources that would be better spent enhancing a site’s core value. > Now that is true. De facto. If you have 10 seconds to find the information you need, you don’t care about the graphical aspect of the site, you don’t want to spend time looking at the splash page, or download the intro, or waste time in endless transitions. Wouldn’t you agree? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eilsoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc348/32.png) [@eilsoe](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/eilsoe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:49am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/6 "2004-08-23T09:49:17Z")
Wasn’t it Jacob Nielsen who said that once? (forgive me if someone mentioned it, I didn’t read the entire thread) My dad-inlaw considers Jacob N. the guru of webdesign… neeedless to say, my dad-inlaws site looks… well… boogers… I think he (JN) changed his views on flash not too long ago tho… (I was right, it was him… hurray for me :P) ---
**Author:** ![radioxromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@radioxromance](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/radioxromance)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/7 "2004-08-23T10:05:28Z")
i don’t know who that is. ---
**Author:** ![pom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@pom](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/pom)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/8 "2004-08-23T10:08:59Z")
> [@Eilsoe](#): > > I think he (JN) changed his views on flash not too long ago tho… He ought to: he was recruited as usability consultant by Macromedia :sure: ---
**Author:** ![radioxromance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@radioxromance](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/radioxromance)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/9 "2004-08-23T10:17:19Z")
oh… the guy that wrote it… nevermind… forget I’m here… ---
**Author:** ![senocular](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/senocular/32/7217_2.png) [@senocular](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/senocular)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:40am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/10 "2004-08-23T10:40:05Z")
I remember this. But based on this guy’s perception how how bad Flash is, we should also all be driving Model-Ts and using Apple IIs and probably be living in trees. Too much of a good thing bad? Having options is bad? Having flexibility is bad? Creative freedom? bad? ---
**Author:** ![andr\_in](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/andr_in/32/37_2.png) [@andr\_in](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/andr_in)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/11 "2004-08-23T10:43:55Z")
> it makes bad design more likely, it breaks with the Web’s fundamental interaction style, and it consumes resources that would be better spent enhancing a site’s core value. I agree that there’s is more bad designs in flash than in html but if flash is capable of doing good design then we can’t blame it… and what exactly is “the Web’s fundamental interaction style”? Text links and Times new Roman? No thanx 😛 And I guess it’s the owner of the site who makes the decision if he needs design or core value ---
**Author:** ![senocular](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/senocular/32/7217_2.png) [@senocular](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/senocular)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 10:52am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/12 "2004-08-23T10:52:38Z")
and 99% is a bit of an exaggeration :sure: I mean you can basically do 99% of what you can in Flash with Javascript ---
**Author:** ![minimalistik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@minimalistik](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/minimalistik)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/13 "2004-08-23T11:11:56Z")
> [@Sen](#): > > and 99% is a bit of an exaggeration > I mean you can basically do 99% of what you can in Flash with Javascript Your quite correct their Sen 😃 ---
**Author:** ![krilnon](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/krilnon/32/34_2.png) [@krilnon](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/krilnon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/14 "2004-08-23T12:20:31Z")
Its a lot harder to do it in JS than Flash though… Or at least it would be for me. ---
**Author:** ![McGiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@McGiver](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/McGiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/15 "2004-08-23T12:52:13Z")
Jakob Nielsen wrote it :sigh: he hates anything beautiful and on his website he crams all information into one unintuitional page. ---
**Author:** ![berkoWitZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@berkoWitZ](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/berkoWitZ)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/16 "2004-08-23T13:22:01Z")
I agree with the one talking about the splash page, I only use them if the client ask me to do it or if there is a flash and a HTML version ---
**Author:** ![955](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/4bbf92/32.png) [@955](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/955)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/17 "2004-08-23T13:29:49Z")
Jakob Nielsen is not a design guru. He’s a usability guru, and many of the things he says are true (Flash can be used well, but Flash-only sites generally degrade accessibility.) About the person that said his site was ugly, so what? His site is still informative. That’s like criticizing Michael Moore’s films because he’s overweight. ---
**Author:** ![McGiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@McGiver](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/McGiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/18 "2004-08-23T14:01:12Z")
I found the form of his page also unintuitional and hard to navigate. it came to me like _baff_ - and now there is a pile of information lying on your screen it’s also his exaggeration of usability that I criticize, but even more the fact that it doesn’t actually work. the page looks for me like the work of a theoretic populist without the ability to show it. Usability is for me also the use of menues and appearing submenus (like on the top of a page or on the left side like you find everywhere) which help the user to navigate (instead of putting all information on one page and letting the user read through a DinA4 page of choices) “don’t make me think” hits the bulls eye. I.e. if I look at a bar that says “Home”-“Tutorials”-“Kirupalab”-Forums"-… I know where I will get. I showed the JN Page to my little brother, a standart internet user, and he had problems to get trough it. He is like someone who is fighting against the developement of the internet. Javascript, DHTML and Flash can increase usability a lot. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/19 "2004-08-23T14:12:53Z")
> [@Eilsoe](#): > > My dad-inlaw considers Jacob N. the guru of webdesign… neeedless to say, my dad-inlaws site looks… well… boogers… so does nielsen’s LOL the guy is a genius, but I’m not going to let him design me anything…hehe. I remember there was a time when Flash was first becoming big and the file sizes were huge, and I was still on dial-up lol, that I would go to the html version instead. ---
**Author:** ![bwh2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@bwh2](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/bwh2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311/20 "2004-08-23T14:41:38Z")
i think flash is 99% bad when used in the wrong situations (and especially so in 2000). flash sites are annoying if you’re trying to sort through a lot of content. still, you can’t just avoid flash entirely because doing so will not help develop the technology. [Next page](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/flash-99-bad-what-tha/120311.md?page=2)