# New skin **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [June 19, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859 "2008-06-19T20:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/1 "2008-06-19T20:34:10Z")
i just added another skin to my site would like some feed back! [http://donovanh.com](http://donovanh.com) if you want to check the older styles click the top banner ---
**Author:** ![ajcates](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/ajcates/32/2435_2.png) [@ajcates](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/ajcates)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/2 "2008-06-19T20:44:20Z")
Dude get rid of the bevels and the gradients, also fix the anti aliasing on the header text. Also the background images have horrible artifacts. one last thing: [SIZE=“7”]DON’T DESIGN WITH TABLES!!![/SIZE] ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/3 "2008-06-19T20:53:35Z")
there is nothing wrong with tables, in fact they are still more standard the the div… anyways good on on the anit-alis it is a little rough, i like your site, kind of surprised your portfolio is so small. ---
**Author:** ![Templarian](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/templarian/32/7152_2.png) [@Templarian](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Templarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/4 "2008-06-19T21:04:19Z")
^Just because everyone else doesn’t, doesn’t mean you should. Now be like everyone else and use div’s. Also yea section up your right nav so its not a list of underlined text. ---
**Author:** ![ajcates](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/ajcates/32/2435_2.png) [@ajcates](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/ajcates)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/5 "2008-06-19T21:11:28Z")
Yea my portfolio is so so small because I am just starting out free lancing, I am hoping to build it more, right now I am willing to do web design really cheap so if you know anybody. ---
**Author:** ![w1sh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7feea3/32.png) [@w1sh](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/w1sh)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/6 "2008-06-19T21:37:11Z")
> [@GrndMasterFlash;2345936](#): > > there is nothing wrong with tables, in fact they are still more standard the the div… That standard sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Stratification](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stratification](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Stratification)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/7 "2008-06-19T21:55:22Z")
Tables do make the source for your site extremely unwieldy. Just wait until you want to change the structure of your site. CSS isn’t that hard to learn, some things can be a huge pain still, but what you’ve got there wouldn’t be bad at all. There are a ton of resources for a standard layout like that. ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/8 "2008-06-20T15:40:20Z")
can any one give me a vaild reason why tables "suck" tables have more subclasses and are more cross browser friendly in css than divs sure they have presets that make you have to define all of there prams or get visual errors but thats not difficult to get over, why does everyone think divs are the only way to go, seems like some bs hype… ---
**Author:** ![Templarian](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/templarian/32/7152_2.png) [@Templarian](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Templarian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/9 "2008-06-20T15:49:49Z")
^It was already stated. With a nice scheme of Div’s one can simply swap out css files later on changing the entire look of the site without having to go back and mess with all the ugly tables. Plus tables are for tabular data not for site layout/design. You use a table for rows of data… even the basic concept of using a table to layout a site doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/10 "2008-06-20T15:58:58Z")
[quote=Templarian;2346373]^It was already stated. With a nice scheme of Div’s one can simply swap out css files later on changing the entire look of the site without having to go back and mess with all the ugly tables. Plus tables are for tabular data not for site layout/design. You use a table for rows of data… even the basic concept of using a table to layout a site doesn’t make sense.[/quote] yeah, well you can switch every aspect of a table with css to and they are more cross browser stable… i don’t know how you can label an html script ugly cause you can’t see it in a browser soo… and the concept of tables is relative to designing on a grid, you just have to know how to make the parts fit, divs have there use, but i see no reason why to use them over tables for basic layouts ---
**Author:** ![Stratification](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@Stratification](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Stratification)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/11 "2008-06-20T16:29:59Z")
Another advantage of a div/css layout is that it gives your site a nice linear layout for a screenreader when styles aren’t applied. Admittedly that still takes a little effort on the designers part, but it is there. And moving from a navigation at the top to the side or bottom is easy with properly laid out divs and css. It’s probably possible with tables, but not great. Cross browser issues aren’t huge for most things either, especially if you realize that it doesn’t matter that much if your designs match pixel for pixel from browser to browser. I realize I’m probably not going to change your mind, but there is a reason people have moved away from tables, and it’s not just “hype”. ---
**Author:** ![sekasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@sekasi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/sekasi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/12 "2008-06-20T17:05:20Z")
I’m fairly neutral to the whole table/div thing although I prefer working with divs. You should get rid of the l33t speak at the top thought that would totally discourage anyone above 22 from hiring you. Really, take it off. : ) ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/13 "2008-06-20T17:28:03Z")
[quote=sekasi;2346443]I’m fairly neutral to the whole table/div thing although I prefer working with divs. You should get rid of the l33t speak at the top thought that would totally discourage anyone above 22 from hiring you. Really, take it off. : )[/quote] yeah, i agree that if i was worried about getting hired the |33t speak would not go, but i have a corp job and wanted just to play around a little, i was trying to keep it really basic, black and white with a lot of ascii graphics ---
**Author:** ![project107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eada6e/32.png) [@project107](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/project107)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/14 "2008-06-20T18:22:04Z")
1 good reason - Tables are used to display tabular data. Div tags should be used to create DOM elements and layouts. You should really learn CSS - it’s in your best interest (and if you already know HTML, it shouldn’t be difficult). Also, if you care about this sort of thing like I do, your page doesn’t validate: [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.donovanh.com/index.php?style=3&page=home](http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.donovanh.com/index.php?style=3&page=home) The W3C has a bunch of good info on the upcoming release of HTML 5 and CSS - you should check them out. [http://www.w3.org/](http://www.w3.org/) Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/15 "2008-06-20T18:41:27Z")
why do people keep saying “you should learn CSS”, hello if you viewed the source of my site you would realize the whole thing is dictated by CSS and i don’t care about weather people use divs or tables, i use what works… some times divs are the way to go, but most of the time i like using tables can anyone just comment on the visual look of the site… geez. ---
**Author:** ![zao](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/zao/32/141_2.png) [@zao](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/zao)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/16 "2008-06-20T18:44:39Z")
Why did you post this in Kool Sites? ---
**Author:** ![GrndMasterFlash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@GrndMasterFlash](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/GrndMasterFlash)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/17 "2008-06-20T18:50:22Z")
> [@zao;2346489](#): > > Why did you post this in Kool Sites? yeah, i should have put it on ![](http://forum.kirupa.com/uploads/kirupa/6979/0a71a02e27d6400a.gif)[**Showcase & Critiques**](http://www.kirupa.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22) oh well too late now doesn’t matter only 1 person on this entire thread actually gave it a critique… 😑 ---
**Author:** ![project107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eada6e/32.png) [@project107](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/project107)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/18 "2008-06-20T20:03:04Z")
I think it looks dated - along with the other available skins. Sorry. When you ask a developer to critique your work, you have to expect the code to be scrutinized just as much as the colors or font. Sloppy code can equal a sloppy web site. I wasn’t trying to sound condescending when I said you should learn CSS; I just think, as a professional web developer/designer, you should know what is deprecated and what’s not. Obviously, tables aren’t outdated - but their main purpose (and some would argue the only purpose) is to display tabular data. Using ‘what works’ or ‘what gets the job done’ is fine if you’re just tinkering or are a hobbyist - but when you work for some large serious client(s), they will want the best from you - and will want something that other people can update and maintain in lieu of you. Cheers! _edit_ You have some serious artwork skills. Looks good! :thumb: ---
**Author:** ![akaJoey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/74df32/32.png) [@akaJoey](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/akaJoey)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/19 "2008-07-05T21:57:46Z")
the header looks nice, not sure if i love the repeating background ---
**Author:** ![Jasninder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Jasninder](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Jasninder)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859/20 "2008-07-06T17:59:30Z")
someone teach me how to use div’s 😃 really [Next page](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/new-skin/263859.md?page=2)