# Petition for Proper PNG Support in WinIE **URL:** \ **Category:** random\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710 "2003-05-25T13:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mdipi](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/mdipi/32/49_2.png) [@mdipi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/mdipi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/1 "2003-05-25T13:15:07Z")
Yeah you read the title correct. I encorage all of you to sign it over at Ultrashock. I think that it will work so its worth a shot: [http://forums.ultrashock.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=27219](http://forums.ultrashock.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=27219) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/2 "2003-05-25T13:16:27Z")
I think there was a link to someting like this not too long ago. But since there are two different petitions, we should all sign it as well ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/3 "2003-05-25T13:24:27Z")
i donno, maybe it was the same one. but if not we just still sign this one, i just did, 8050 sigs so far! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/4 "2003-05-25T16:02:50Z")
Edwin already posted that here like a month or 2 ago šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/5 "2003-05-25T16:03:51Z")
oh well umā€¦just for those of you who didnt see it then lol/ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/6 "2003-05-25T16:18:49Z")
i didnt ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/7 "2003-05-25T18:00:13Z")
see ^ | thats why i posted it! lol ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/8 "2003-05-25T18:16:39Z")
The major reason PNGā€™s arenā€™t supported, is because of their file sizeā€¦ Not because they canā€™t, or wonā€™tā€¦ a png will be 150k for the same image a jpeg or gif can do in 10% of the file sizeā€¦ Thatā€¦ is why Flash is sooo much betterā€¦ remember, over 65% of the US still uses a dial-up to access the web. The world is even higherā€¦ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/9 "2003-05-25T19:19:42Z")
rev png is smaller than gifā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/10 "2003-05-25T19:30:31Z")
depending on how you use itā€¦ .gif can be extremely large, or smallā€¦ png can only be small in 8 bit ā€¦ 32 bit with transparency is much largerā€¦ If you dontā€™ believe me, try itā€¦ same image in .gif, and .png ā€¦ I think you will see that .gif is smallerā€¦ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/11 "2003-05-25T20:50:02Z")
but png also has WAYYY more colours. if you look at the artical _dipi digs it up_ read this artical, its basicly whta i am trying tro say: The PNG format is superior to the GIF format: When the same image is saved in both PNG and GIF formats, in an editor with full and proper support for both formats, the PNG image is typically a smaller file size, is free from royalties, patents, and copyright restrictions that hinder the GIF format, and can use more than 256 colours - up to 48-bit colour. The PNG format is a World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) recommendation: Microsoft has repeatedly stated their renewed commitment to web standards, so implementing full PNG support would be the next logical step in fulfilling this promise, especially since it was supposed to be implemented over four years ago. The PNG format supports alpha transparency: Anybody who has designed images for use online knows the woes of trying to make that image appear smooth on any background. Some designers create different images to be used on different background colours, other designers simply leave the edges jagged, and still others just give their images a solid background. Itā€™s a bad way to go, but itā€™s the only choice right now. Using PNG images with alpha transparency would eliminate all of these problems, and make the work of web designers a lot easier. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/12 "2003-05-25T21:38:44Z")
true, but file size is still a major concern! Also, there are a bunch of WC3 recommendations that are still not included by all browsersā€¦ Why not add these to the petition? The png is cool when you use 32 bit, but the file size is hugeā€¦ Flash handles png very well, so that is a major reason for not putting it high on the priority listā€¦ My point isā€¦ this is a waste of timeā€¦ MS is not going to add something just because they get a petition to do so. BTW - the web is based on 216 colors that show the same in all browsers and platformsā€¦ Itā€™s called Websafe colorsā€¦ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/13 "2003-05-25T21:42:46Z")
I never signed the petition. I donā€™t think the web is ready for .pngs. Granted they can be useful, theres still a majority of people out there that donā€™t have faster modems, and is it really worth it beefing up file size just because people do have faster modems? And not all browsers show them the same, it isnā€™t just IE that is weird with it, it is every browser. And as rev stated about websafe colors, just because .png images support more colors, that doesnā€™t mean they are better. It is more of a reason they act retarded in different browsers. All of this has been stated before, but it was my reasoning for not signing the petition. If you want to sign a more useful petition, sign Colin Moocks petition for Macromedia to build a better preloading APIā€¦ [http://www.moock.org/blog/archives/000010.html](http://www.moock.org/blog/archives/000010.html) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/14 "2003-05-25T21:49:50Z")
> The PNG format is superior to the GIF format: When the same image is saved in both PNG and GIF formats, in an editor with full and proper support for both formats, the PNG image is typically a smaller file size, is free from royalties, patents, and copyright restrictions that hinder the GIF format, and can use more than 256 colours - up to 48-bit colour. This quote is misleading at best. If you take an image, optimize it for the best quality/file size, you will find that a .gif is smaller. Most of the time, jpeg (which uses millions of colors) will work just as well, just needs to be thought out a little moreā€¦ I would rather Flash be able to dynamically load .gifs, along with jpegs, rather than pushing the browsers to use pngsā€¦ Rev ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/15 "2003-05-25T22:45:57Z")
yeah i see the point, but i would still like to see the png supported. but rev, dynamicly loaded gifsā€¦mmmm sounds yummy! you should start a petition! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/16 "2003-05-25T23:20:00Z")
it already was implimented with Generatorā€¦ They removed it with MXā€¦ šŸ˜‰ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/17 "2003-05-25T23:24:19Z")
i still dont know what generator wasā€¦ and if it was so good why did they take it out\>? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/18 "2003-05-25T23:35:42Z")
Generator was the only way to dynamically load images, etc. into Flash at runtime. It was, however, server side, and was extremely costly ($90,000) to impliment. Once implimented, however, it was a lot easier to manipulate and track, since all the work was done on the server endā€¦ BTW - there were only about 50 of us - WorldWide - that used Generatorā€¦ That is why they decided to ā€œmergeā€ Gen2 into Flash MXā€¦ They just dropped a bunch of stuff out, to keep the player smallā€¦ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/19 "2003-05-25T23:38:15Z")
you used Generator right rev? but thats cool, but 90k! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710/20 "2003-05-25T23:44:32Z")
my site is still running on Gen2, along with [www.ayoungkim.com](http://www.ayoungkim.com), plus a few othersā€¦ The biggest problem was trying to find an ISP that would allow you to install Gen2 on their serverā€¦ That said, since Gen2 runs on the server side, I can host all of the dynamic content on my server, then just use an absolute path to call it from HTML on another serverā€¦ Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) [Next page](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/petition-for-proper-png-support-in-winie/21710.md?page=2)