# Some People hate Flash **URL:** \ **Category:** random\ **Created:** [May 19, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254 "2003-05-19T17:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mlk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@mlk](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/mlk)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/1 "2003-05-19T17:51:15Z")
> **[Flash: 99% Bad](https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flash-99-percent-bad/)** > > Flash reduces usability by: making bad design more likely, breaking the Web's fundamental interaction style, and consuming resources better spent enhancing a site's core value. quite revolting (although the guy admits at the end that flash has improved since then) i feel nice whenever i see a really good interactive intro. Dont you ? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/2 "2003-05-19T17:57:00Z")
Here is another one: [http://www.kirupaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23330&highlight=flash+hater](http://www.kirupaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23330&highlight=flash+hater) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/3 "2003-05-19T18:18:17Z")
Some people also eat people… There are always a few… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/4 "2003-05-19T18:24:25Z")
ahhh How’d you know!?! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/5 "2003-05-19T18:42:25Z")
> Summary: > Although multimedia has its role on the Web, current Flash technology tends to discourage usability for three reasons: it makes bad design more likely, it breaks with the Web’s fundamental interaction style, and it consumes resources that would be better spent enhancing a site’s core value. I agree with this statement 100% I don’t know how my fellow mods feel about this, but I hope that to a degree they share my desire to see Flash become **“the”** method of interaction with the www. Towards this end it behoves all of us to make sure that we are (constructively) critical of other Flasher’s work, and that we constantly train ourselves in the field of “design”. There’s nothing wrong with this critique. People need to realize that a lot of this trash talk of Flash **is** true. It is only true however because we as a community allow it to be so. How many of you have come across, in a forum, that new designer who’s looking to make a buck off this thing called the internet. They have just opened the Flash box and want to know how to make a web page. Or the one who doesn’t want you to be critical because “it’s art, and all art is good, because it’s opinon.” Opinon can’t be wrong can it? Of course it can. Or rather, art can be crap. My point. The internet has a lot of crap Flash out there. A site is good when it loads quickly, delivers what it’s ment to, and doesn’t disrupt the navigating experience from it to other sites, or from other sites to it. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/6 "2003-05-19T18:44:37Z")
100% david. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/7 "2003-05-19T18:47:33Z")
“search the forum first” That really cracks me up. I think I’m voting for you for the footer contest. 🙂 PS to the above - If anyone ever thinks I’m being “wordy”, keep this in mind. That post was three times that length before I edited it for you. I could be infinitely more wordy on subjects. Be thankful… be very very thankful. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/8 "2003-05-19T18:53:26Z")
Agree. A lot of Flash newbies build rather crappy flash sites and call them ‘design studios’. There many examples of those on communities like this. I think they should be proficient with the program before going off and trying to make ‘business’…:sigh: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/9 "2003-05-19T20:05:36Z")
We, as Flash Designers, have been fighting this stereotype since Flash was invented. Yet Designers still use popups because they are too lazy to make the design useable without it. Designers seem to think that if they put a preloader on the item, it doesn’t matter how big the file is. Designers still seem to think that as long as they have a “skip intro” button on the site, a long, non-interactive intro is allowable. We, as Web Designers, need to keep in mind a couple of things: 1. can this be done with HTML with the same relative experience? If so, then create the site in HTML, not in Flash! 2. How big is the download? If the download is more than 200k, another version must be created that is under 200k! 3. How do these colors react together? 4. IS THE TEXT READABLE ON ALL RESOLUTIONS? Just because a pixel font looks cool on your screen doesn’t give you permission to use it! 5. If the user needs to “figure” something out, in order to visit the site, then you need to redesign the site. My point is: Yes, there are a ton of bad Flash sites being created, but there are also a ton of bad HTML (and others) sites being created at the same time. Very few people create sites with Useability as their first priority. I’m tired of seeing a portfolio site that has a “news” page up first. I mean, it’s a portfolio site, why do they have information about how they built the site, where they are going for vacation? It’s because they ran out of ideas, and therefore need to fill space. I urge all designers to first sketch out your design before you get to the computer. Then take the time to choose colors, and a “look and feel” . Then finally go about building your site. Think about its purpose, and who the visitors are going to be… ALL OF THE VISITORS, NOT JUST YOUR FRIENDS… If I put out a site for a client, that looks like most that get submitted for SOTW, my clients wouldn’t be happy, and I would not get the much all desired referral. JMO Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/10 "2003-05-19T20:16:29Z")
i do hate flash intros though. they’re so useless. and usually too long. AND why would you put a skip intro button on the bottom of the animation. in my opinion, you’re just giving the user a way out of the misery of sitting thru the whole animation. i almost always click the skip intro button. flash is a great tool but just like everything else it can be overused and “abused”. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/11 "2003-05-19T20:30:13Z")
Jacob Neilson was famous for saying: "The most clicked button on the web is ‘skip intro’ " I agree fully 110% ! Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/12 "2003-05-19T20:47:09Z")
Nielsen is an arrogant, opinionated man… But he does have some good points about Flash. 🙂 Anyone ever read one of his usability books? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/13 "2003-05-19T20:51:19Z")
I stopped paying attention to Nielson when he went on the Macromedia payroll… Just seemed like a conflict of interests to me… But as you say, some of his comments are true… I haven’t read any of his writings for years… Rev ![](http://www.aulman.com/rev.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/14 "2003-05-19T21:00:52Z")
Isnt that original article all about flash 4? I remember reading that a long time ago… Be that the case I would have to say a good chunk of it is dated. Although you all have a good point about there being bad design across all types of media. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/15 "2003-05-19T21:24:36Z")
another thing ive said and i think every real web designer does is to test his website in difrent browsers, and OS its a very important part of being a web developer and it shows the user that you are a professional and that youve made sure that the website no matter what resolution, browser or OS it will be the same experience on all, thats a true web developer. I think testing your website is more frustrating and time consuming than creating it but its worth it if you want to be professional about your work, just MHO :beam: ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/16 "2003-05-19T22:09:40Z")
i aren’t disagreeing with anything said on the subject but lets not forget that for every bad flash designed site the are 4 or 5 badly designed plain html sites… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/17 "2003-05-20T00:11:41Z")
> \*Originally posted by grimdeath \*\*\*another thing ive said and i think every real web designer does is to test his website in different browsers, and OS its a very important part of being a web developer… \*\* > Hear, hear! I’ve been “preaching” this for years, ask Rev he’s tired of hearing it. 😉 > Site compatibility cross-browser, cross-platform, cross-resolution, etc. is the responsibility of the web designer. You can design for the optimum situation, but the site needs to “degrade gracefully” at less than optimum. Grimdeath, should we ever meet face to face, the first cold beer is on me. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/18 "2003-05-20T02:55:31Z")
but then you can’t make it entirely perfect across all platforms and all browsers. so choosing which audience is most important is well, important. yes you may alienate a certain segment, hopefully a small one, but you’ll reach the people you really want and can get the most out of. but still, i totally agree with TESTING TESTING TESTING… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/uploads/kirupa/original/3X/6/2/621e5c11736f46532526e61be85940af4230f3e5.png) [@system](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/some-people-hate-flash/21254/19 "2003-05-20T03:07:58Z")
> \*Originally posted by pinx \* > \*\*but then you can’t make it entirely perfect across all platforms and all browsers… \*\* No, there is no way to make most sites “perfect” in all browsers/platforms/resolutions. However, if well designed the site will look and function great in the target configuration, yet still look and function well in all but the most obscure configurations. The key phrase being “least common configuration”.