# Tables to tableless. I am willing to commit my life to tableless. Whats the next step
**URL:** https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607
**Category:** web dev
**Created:** [June 17, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607 "2008-06-17T17:50:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@jpf566](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/jpf566)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/1 "2008-06-17T17:50:53Z")
Well I have read a lot on the internet about tableless web design…. The more I read the more I feel…guilty about using tables to design my web sites. 🙂 haha seriously I feel that it is time that I learn to design my sites without tables… now… Let me first start out by saying that I use dreamweaver…I know I know…all you code junkies are gonna call me a noob and everything… But the fact of the matter is I am not a coder, I am a designer.
ANYWAY the reason for my post! I am currently working on a new web site, I have set it up using tables (rather sloppily I might add, Like I said, im a graphics guy not a code guy) Before I go any further here is what I have so far for my new site
[sheffield.gomft.com/hfmcc/index.html](http://sheffield.gomft.com/hfmcc/index.html)
(SEE THE MONTHLY SPECIAL PAGE, Right bar) It looks kinda ok in Safari and is very messed up in Firefox. I am having some issues with the way the content is placing itself (on the right sidebar) when I elongate the main table. The box that contains the contact begins tiling itself, even though It looks fine in Dreamweaver, and all the furniture brands are not aligned to the top.
Maybe I need to go tableles… Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can attain this design? Either tableless or ….if I must, at least efficiently with tables? Thanks everyone.
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### Author:  [@fasterthanlight](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/fasterthanlight)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/2 "2008-06-17T18:01:53Z")
You need to learn how to hand code HTML and CSS to be able to design tableless properly
Dreamweaver does it really badly.
The reason why its tiling is because its a set height. and when you increase the font-size, it obviously overflows and begins repeating.
look up CSS sliding doors technic to figure out the fix
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### Author:  [@NeoDreamer](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/NeoDreamer)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/3 "2008-06-18T06:23:23Z")
I used to use Dreamweaver’s WYSIWIG to do table designs too. You can still use Dreamweaver to hand-code table-less CSS designs, but you’ll have to close that WYSIWIG window. It will not show you what it looks like neither in Firefox nor Internet Explorer. I actually prefer coding in Dreamweaver because there’s auto-auto complete and color coding.
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### Author:  [@redelite](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/redelite)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/4 "2008-06-19T15:20:41Z")
Like the rest of them said, the only way to really LEARN it is to start coding CSS and HTML by hand and playing around with it. There’s really only so much you can learn, but the real challenge is learning different ways to implement it.
On a side note:
I use Textpad on PC and VIM on Mac to do my coding… all color coded and neither have auto complete (which I absolutely cannot stand auto complete, drives me crazy)
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### Author:  [@fasterthanlight](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/fasterthanlight)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/5 "2008-06-19T15:30:35Z")
> I used to use Dreamweaver’s WYSIWIG to do table designs too. You can still use Dreamweaver to hand-code table-less CSS designs, but you’ll have to close that WYSIWIG window. It will not show you what it looks like neither in Firefox nor Internet Explorer. I actually prefer coding in Dreamweaver because there’s auto-auto complete and color coding.
Most dedicated coding apps do this, without the bulk of dreamweaver (and it IS bulllkkkkyyyy)
Dont know what OS you’re using, but there are cheaper, and faster options out there that accomplish what you like, and More!! Wheeeee!!
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### Author:  [@NeoDreamer](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/NeoDreamer)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/6 "2008-06-19T18:40:42Z")
Dreamweaver is not bulky in terms of RAM usage. However, it uses extraordinary amounts of CPU processing to upload/download large files to/from the remote host… 90% on my Intel Wolfdale Dual Core 3.0 Ghz.
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### Author:  [@fasterthanlight](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/fasterthanlight)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/7 "2008-06-19T18:44:09Z")
Icky!!
Bulky in terms of interface and useless features too (mostly due to WYSIWYG editor)
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### Author:  [@jpf566](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/jpf566)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/8 "2008-06-20T19:43:03Z")
ok so…I set my image to not tile… I also set all my tables to be the right size…its not working… Atleast not in firefox!
see example here
[www.hfmcc.com/hfmproblem.jpg](http://www.hfmcc.com/hfmproblem.jpg)
NOTE: I made the the background of the bottom box of the table pink so u can see whats going on better.
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### Author:  [@Templarian](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Templarian)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/9 "2008-06-20T19:53:02Z")
[ot][quote=NeoDreamer;2344749]I used to use Dreamweaver’s WYSIWIG to do table designs too. You can still use Dreamweaver to hand-code table-less CSS designs, but you’ll have to close that WYSIWIG window. It will not show you what it looks like neither in Firefox nor Internet Explorer. I actually prefer coding in Dreamweaver because there’s auto-auto complete and color coding.[/quote]
Its auto complete sucks though. Type up a Javascript function and it won’t even tell you the parameters for it the next time you go to use the function. [whisper]plus dreamweavers php support is in the same poor shape[/whisper]
Switch to Komodo 4.3 if you on windows. DW WYSIWYG is horrible… its better in CS4 though. I don’t really get the point of it entirely.[/ot]
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### Author:  [@actionAction](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/actionAction)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/10 "2008-06-21T04:17:28Z")
[HTML-Kit and [URL=“http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm”]Notepad++](http://www.chami.com/html-kit/) (what I use mostly) are both excellent free options for hand coding. You seem like a good candidate for HTMLKit as it allows you to live preview your code (sorta like DW) as you type, supports auto completion of built in functions in PHP, JS, HTML tags, and custom functions/classes.
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### Author:  [@NeoDreamer](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/NeoDreamer)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/tables-to-tableless-i-am-willing-to-commit-my-life-to-tableless-whats-the-next-step/263607/11 "2008-06-21T04:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=Templarian;2346537]
Its auto complete sucks though. Type up a Javascript function and it won’t even tell you the parameters for it the next time you go to use the function. plus dreamweavers php support is in the same poor shape[/QUOTE]
Dreamweaver 8 tells me the PHP parameter types all the time. I can’t comment on Javascript, since I don’t program in it.