# Who invented the 3D engine? **URL:** \ **Category:** random\ **Created:** [July 7, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272 "2008-07-07T09:37:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rumblesushi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@rumblesushi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/rumblesushi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/1 "2008-07-07T09:37:30Z")
Basically, who was the first person to write a 3D engine as we know it? Polygons manipulated live in 3D space? Does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![anon1712571](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@anon1712571](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/anon1712571)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 10:39am UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/2 "2008-07-07T10:39:25Z")
Not one person, but a respected person (leader at pixar and has a spline named after him) Ed Catmull could be one to read up on. ---
**Author:** ![sekasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@sekasi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/sekasi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/3 "2008-07-07T12:54:06Z")
I would personally read up on John Carmack. A lot of people view him as the maker of the modern 3d engine for gaming. He’s a bit of a freak ; P ---
**Author:** ![rumblesushi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@rumblesushi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/rumblesushi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/4 "2008-07-07T13:08:14Z")
Ahh, carmack, yes, the founder of ID right? I’ll read up on these guys. Carmack is still only 37. He started pretty young. I can’t believe he has released the source code for most of his games too, he sounds like a cool guy. I know DOOM certainly revolutionalised 3D engines, I rememebr it clearly, it was amazing at the time. Before that though, there was Wolfenstein and a couple of others I’m sure, that were “proper” 3D to an extent, as opposed to mode 7 style techniques. Virtua racing and virtua fighter came out before DOOM, that was still in the no texture mapping era, flat shaded polys, I loved them at the time 😃 I’m sure there must have been a 3D engine before that though, game or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![biznuge](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/biznuge/32/11567_2.png) [@biznuge](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/biznuge)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/5 "2008-07-07T13:18:25Z")
would the old “cockpit” style star-wars games not constitute an early version of what you’re talking about, with a vector graphic stylee in stead of shading, but still i suppose technically speaking, using polygons… wow i loved that game, back when playing video games in an arcade didn’t cost a months wage… ---
**Author:** ![sekasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@sekasi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/sekasi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/6 "2008-07-07T14:09:19Z")
Oh yes, there was definitely 3D polygon engines before Carmack. I just find the guy interesting since he more or less changed the way people approached mathematics in game programming. ---
**Author:** ![Templarian](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/templarian/32/7152_2.png) [@Templarian](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/Templarian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/7 "2008-07-07T14:13:28Z")
Carmack would probably be the key person, he brought it to the next level. [QUOTE=biznuge;2354619]would the old “cockpit” style star-wars games not constitute an early version of what you’re talking about, with a vector graphic stylee in stead of shading, but still i suppose technically speaking, using polygons… wow i loved that game, back when playing video games in an arcade didn’t cost a months wage…[/QUOTE] I love that game, I should go look for the 12 floppies required to install it. That reminds me of that bike game where you drive around in a world of a bunch of lines and shapes… cool game forget what its called. ---
**Author:** ![senocular](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/senocular/32/7217_2.png) [@senocular](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/senocular)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/8 "2008-07-07T14:22:03Z")
DOOM and Wolfenstein weren’t conventional 3D. They used ray casting, which is essentially mode 7 - taking slices of 2D and compiling them together to create a seemingly 3D image. But even before that, full polygons were being rendered in monochromatic vector systems. And I’m sure you could probably find research being done on this stuff before people were able to practically apply them to whatever computer systems existed at the time. I think you’d be hard pressed to find any one person responsible for the having invented the 3D engine. ---
**Author:** ![biznuge](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex011/user_avatar/forum.kirupa.com/biznuge/32/11567_2.png) [@biznuge](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/biznuge)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/9 "2008-07-07T15:07:14Z")
> That reminds me of that bike game where you drive around in a world of a bunch of lines and shapes… cool game forget what its called TRON…? ---
**Author:** ![rumblesushi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@rumblesushi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/rumblesushi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/10 "2008-07-07T15:14:12Z")
[quote=senocular;2354651]DOOM and Wolfenstein weren’t conventional 3D. They used ray casting, which is essentially mode 7 - taking slices of 2D and compiling them together to create a seemingly 3D image. But even before that, full polygons were being rendered in monochromatic vector systems. And I’m sure you could probably find research being done on this stuff before people were able to practically apply them to whatever computer systems existed at the time. I think you’d be hard pressed to find any one person responsible for the having invented the 3D engine.[/quote] Wow I didn’t know that about DOOM, that it was ray casting/mode 7 techniques. SO I guess the first prominent games to feature proper 3D were in fact VR and VF. ---
**Author:** ![sekasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@sekasi](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/sekasi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/11 "2008-07-07T15:16:18Z")
I’d have to say Quake there, since it was to my knowledge the first successful game with ‘real’ 3d math behind it. ---
**Author:** ![mlk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@mlk](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/mlk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/12 "2008-07-07T18:08:20Z")
In terms of pioneer of 3D I’m with Dark on that one Catmull has my vote (he also has a polygonal subdivision algorithm to his name) And it’s hard to put a date to such thing, you can code a 3d engine with pretty much anything. (I remember ‘battle tanks’ was ugly 3D) star wars used 3D in the first destruction of the death star… ---
**Author:** ![prg9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8dc957/32.png) [@prg9](https://forum.kirupa.com/u/prg9)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.kirupa.com/t/who-invented-the-3d-engine/265272/13 "2008-07-07T18:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=senocular;2354651]I think you’d be hard pressed to find any one person responsible for the having invented the 3D engine.[/QUOTE] I agree with Senocular, it was a cumulative effort by many over time, the same as advancements are now in 3D. Of course some individuals have played bigger roles than others over the course of time. I find the following interesting. CGI Historical Timeline [http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/timeline.html](http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/timeline.html) > 1963 - [Sketchpad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad) developed beginning in 1961 by Ivan Sutherland at MIT 1963 - 1st (?) computer generated film by Edward Zajac (Bell Labs) 1967 - Adage real time 3D line drawing system > **[Hidden-line removal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_line_removal)** > > In 3D computer graphics, solid objects are usually modeled by polyhedra. A face of a polyhedron is a planar polygon bounded by straight line segments, called edges. Curved surfaces are usually approximated by a polygon mesh. Computer programs for line drawings of opaque objects must be able to decide which edges or which parts of the edges are hidden by an object itself or by other objects, so that those edges can be clipped during rendering. This problem is known as hidden-line removal. > The fi... Arthur Appel at IBM > **[Hidden Line Algorithms in Three Dimensional Graphing by David Edasery](https://glassrcalc3.wordpress.com/2006/10/20/hidden-line-algorithms-in-three-dimensional-graphing-by-david-edasery/)** > >     When rendering a three dimensional surface on a two dimensional screen, lines which cannot be seen by the viewer must be removed from the screen so that shape of the surface is not distorting b… 1972 - Utah hand (Edwin Catmull) and face (Fred Parke) animations produced (Ivan Sutherland students)