Sorry for spoiling your fun with asphalt awhile back kit! 
lol
dmn you comicGeek! d***mn you!
*shakes fist!
lol, np - I really ought to get ready⌠but⌠but⌠âTeh Kirupa has mehâ :beam:
*Originally posted by vts31 *
**listen. when it comes to clients follow the rulesâŚif you want to get paid. other than that screw everything else. think for yourself and dont let random people tell you whats wrong or bad. you are the visionary. you decide. nuff said **
Well I agree that if you donât care about getting paid, otherâs opinions shouldnât hold you back from anything vts, BUT that doesnât mean that youâre going to be good at design ever. Listen to peoples constructive critisisms and learn from what they are saying, even if youâre not going to make money. It doesnât mean you even have to follow their advice⌠but yes, you should listen to it if you have any interest at all in making something functional as well as beutiful.
yeah i guess but how do you define good? is it asthetic beauty? is it a regergitation of design theory books? its all kinda subjective. i feel that anybody who keeps experiment will sooner or later derive the same conclusions every other designer makes. they develop an eyeâŚthey know what works what doesnt. obviously criticism/feed back is important but i meant âdont listenâ in a more general sense.
Asthetic beuty at least in the context of this thread is a style issue. Personaly, if youâre not making money, your style in my mind, should be whatever you like. Style is subjective.
i meant âdont listenâ in a more general sense
Fair enough then. Youâre right. Listen, but âdonât let the turkeys get you down.â as the saying goes. With me, I tend to judge how much something should be important to me by two factors. A) how many years, and what kind of years (ie education or work experience) has the author of the critique been in the business, and B) How constructive is the critisism.
Sometimes rude people say important things too. Sometimes nice people donât have a clue what they are talking about.
As for people discovering stuff on their own through trial and error⌠well thatâs great wishful thinking. Iâm not sure if I see it happen all that often though. More often someone gets it in their head that their work must be good because itâs âsubjectiveâ. In my opinion design is not really all that subjective. If something doesnât work, or is confusing, then any amount of astetic beuty does not make it better.
So at least in the area of design, âgoodâ has been defined as that which serves itâs function well. (I think. :))
So at least in the area of design, âgoodâ has been defined as that which serves itâs function well. (I think. :))
Thatâs really the definition!
Iâve been thinking, so if we want to be good designers then we should stick to old ways of doing it? We shouldnât explore new ways, new ideas, new methods? I mean when you look at the work of people like the author, you can see that they only use very old methods. No animation, no CSS, underlined linksâŚETC.
Itâs boring.
I have read the article Web Pages that Suck and basically they donât want websites to have some mambo-jambo decorations in them. They want it to be clean and direct to the point. In other words they want it to be strict and without style. They want users to come visit their pages and put money in their pockets. They think that with new methods, we are just wasting bandwidth to unimportant, non-earning websites!
Itâs boring.
With the emergence of multimedia and the advancement in technology why should we stick to the old methods of doing it? We shouldnât have upgraded our PC, we should be using oil lamps insteadâŚ
Just my thought though! :x
Something can be clean, direct and to the point in content, but still explore new methods of design.
I think if you do have content, tangable content, it should not be difficult to access, read or whatever. Unless you want it to be for some specific reason. Itâs still perfectly possibly to design new ways to display that content. You do not have to abandon clarity to indulge your creative site. You should not abandon clarity to indulge your creative site. Thatâs just laziness.
*Originally posted by david *
** It just goes to show that style is in the mind of the beholder⌠and can be interesting to a person or not, ⌠⌠it just matters if it serves itâs purpose in the most efficient manner possible. **
Wow! i like that david! âstyle is in the mind of the beholder!â âŚand that is pretty right! âŚsometimes the problem is not really the one who makes⌠itâs the âidiot-less fortunate users!â (opps) âŚsometimes they just cant fathom what you are trying to show⌠thatâs why sometimes (or most of the time) we do stoop down just to feed the heck usersâŚ
Both the phrases - âStyle is in the eye of the beholderâ and âGood design is design that serves itâs function wellâ are absolutely right. Thatâs really saying something because thereâs really very little that you can be sure of when you are deciding how you judge somethings aesthetic value.
That style (or beauty) is in the eye of the beholder may seem obvious and might even come across to some as an irritating platittude. Itâs not. It reminds us that when youâre working for someone else you have to take their perspective to a certain extent. Of course, if youâre good youâll want to guide them, make them see things in a new light and perhaps even give them something they didnât expect. But if they donât like it, no matter how much you like it, at the end of the day itâs not a style that works <i>for them</i>.
âGood design is design that fulfills itâs function wellâ is, I think, closely related to how one decides whether one likes something or not. Personally I firmly believe that whether you think something is well designed or not has everything to do with whether it achieves what it was intended to achieve. If you have drawn a cloud and someone comes up and says 'Hey - great Poodle" - you may well have drawn a great Poodle, by chance, but it gives us no real insight into how well you draw Poodles, it only tells us that you think clouds are a really odd shape.
Again that may sound obvious, but the number of modern artists that approach art with no real intentions and that then later rely on the interpretation of others to give their art its value is shocking, and I think a poor way of evaluating art. Web design is the same - if you are setting out to fulfill a set of criteria, generally: âdisplay this information and make it look goodâ you can expend all your efforts to make the site look as modern, impressive and well designed, so long as you remember that you are also supposed to be âdisplaying informationâ, and that means clearly, as well.
Well said man!
I got this comment from a competitor during the 2nd Cebu Web Awards here in our place, he said, âThis competition sucks! Why is it that we use Flash? Why is it that we compete only to make good layout? Why not let us make a page with log-in and a print button using HTLM and javascript?â.
Because if you did that, everyone else would be up in arms.
Just be grateful you donât have to work with purple, orange and the Churchill dog. Although if we get bought out by Direct Line then itâs red phones all round. :sure:
Iâm grateful, Iâm grateful
This guy is bord and a old man. !
HELLO its year 2003 :crazy:
Do you guys care what he said ?
*Originally posted by Blastboy *
**This guy is bord and a old man. !
**
Wow. Just wow.
I guess he is an old man. D*mn him. How dare he?
i believe this comes from a dirty harry movie (they used it in fallout 2 too somewhere): âopinions are like a**holes, everybody has them and they all stinkâ. Lol just his way of saying that all opinions are subjective i guess(or well most, some ppl seem to have no opinion of their own at all)
Having your own ideas is great. But if you want to only make your own things⌠stick to art/webdesign as a hobby. Only a select few of lucky ppl can make a living out of this by working out their own ideas, and most of the time they had to go through years of commercial assignments to get there. For all the rest there is only one law that counts, an ecomic law unfortunatly: âthe customer is always rightâ
Iâve done quite a share of work for other people⌠most of the time i get cart blanche, which is really fun to do. But the bigger the window you can work in the bigger the chance you will have to start over.
Sarcasm is never nice! Letâs be friends people! 
Sorry. But ageism isnât that nice either.
I plan on still being a thinking individual when Iâm âoldâ.
Me too! Letâs just bite our tongue and keep the painful words to come out. at least until we canât hold it any longer!
i think everybody has said just about everything there is already?
but there is a fine line between the twoâŚ
when designing for a client the most important thing to bear in mind is their end userâŚ
after all thats wot they r paying forâŚ
but at the same time, we as designers/developers must have a sense of satisfaction in our workâŚ
this is were it gets difficultâŚ
most clients are like sheep and have to be ledâŚ
they dont know anything about the web and only want a site bcoz they âfeel they need to have something up thereâ
it is our job to represent the client but at the same time be able to represent ourselves through our workâŚ
this is the difficult partâŚ
if you have understood the brief and interpreted it well, you should be able to do a crossover were you yourself are getting what you want out if it from an aesthetic point of viewâŚ
and your client will get a site that is user friendly, quick to download (even on a 56k which some ppl 4get) and gives them the opportunity to portray themselves as a fresh and dynamic company etc that u would want to do business withâŚ
they r buying a marketing tool from you which in turn should become a marketing tool for yourselfâŚ
the work is your reputation and you have to ask yourself how much is that worth?
personally i put in extra hours into a project just to make it right for me as well as the client and they r not billed for itâŚ
this is not being a martyr, but i would like for our clients to turn around and say that we did a good job, the feedback from their clients was good and at the end of the day everyone concerned was a happy bunnyâŚ
there is a lot of crap out there and we have all seen it or scoffed at it @ some pointâŚ
but there is also a lot of good stuff too that we can take inspiration from, learn from and move onâŚ
the web is still a child and it is up to us to make it a better place for everybodyâŚ
whether that means at some point we have to bite our tongues as we say in our heads âTHAT is going to look terrible and it WONT workââŚ
or we can step back and look and say âfekâŚthat was meâ
and feel good about itâŚ
personally i am no expert in any field but i do have to question anybody who says that they r?
what gives someone the right to define a set of rules that everyone should pertain too?
what makes an expert?
is it THEIR opinion on how they think things should be done?
maybe JN has got his head up his arse coz hes looking for something that he might have missed and we really need to hear that bit of info?
flash is a great tool and if used properly it can convey much more than bells or whistlesâŚ
itâs a shame that it gets such a bad rep sometimesâŚ
but then againâŚ
iâm no expert so wot the fek do i know?
