I think you have progressed beyond the processes of having an argument to trying to feverishly pound your opinion in a friendly environment here.
Quite frankly comparing Tchaikovsky and Bonanza to the kind of obscene violence that exists in some computer games and movies just sounds … well, to be frank it sounds kinda weak.
I’d be happy to have this discussion with you, perhaps in another place, but It’d be pretty wasted space unless you are ready to accept anyone else’s opinions apart from your own. Which your post made it abundantly clear you’re not.
I going to have to blame poor parenting. Its not TV or video games, etc. that makes killers, its the parents who allow their children to watch these shows, play these games and ultimately don’t give a ■■■■ that creates crappy people.
Censoring t-shirts is pretty stupid unless it blatenly says something like “YOUR PLANE ASPLODE!!!”.
But, I do agree with Sekasi on how the amount of violence in media probably does affect us as a society to some extent.
Look, unless your t-shirt explicitly says “I’m a terrorist, and I am going to blow up this plane” there really shouldn’t be any reason to deny you from boarding an airplane. Wearing something “offending” to other passengers shouldn’t be a reason to deny you a flight either. In these paranoid times I’m fairly certain that looking Arab while on an airplane is offensive to some people.
And as far as violence, media and society goes - society is not any more violent than it used to be. Now you just know about it. While you may not like it, violence is something that is inherent in people. And yes you’re right, there are influences. But it isn’t the media, it’s plain old greed, lust, envy, anger and fear.
I won’t be convinced otherwise, unless you’ve got any evidence to the contrary other than conjecture.
[quote=Gundark;2335610]
And as far as violence, media and society goes - society is not any more violent than it used to be.[/quote]
I don’t think thats a valid argument since none of us were alive in the middle ages.
Sure we hear about the violence throughout history but how much of that is just our violent society telling us what we *want *to hear.
Who wants to hear about some guy who lived peacefully on his farm?
Who actually watches little house on the prairie?
And if it was indeed more violent couldn’t we chalk that up to lower value of life? When you have people dying left and right from various deseases, infection, starvation, and death is common place i’d imagine killing someone wouldn’t be as harsh.
If you want a fairer a[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]ssessment[/FONT][/COLOR] of the violence in society id sujest taking a look at other countries. Look at how violence is viewed by them, portrayed by their media (if at all) and compare it to homicide rates, gun laws, etc, obviously acounting for population and how reliable the source is, ie governents fudging stats.
I haven’t looked too hard but I’d imagine you’d find links between the violence in the country’s media and the amount of violent crimes. I’m not saying violence in TV causes violence in people as there are other variables to take into account, but its pretty naive to think that it doesn’t affect society at all.
Wait are you seriously arguing that history isn’t a bloody affair? The spanish inquisition, the crusades, first and second world war in more recent times. Hell even things like open slave trade, public hangings and beheadings. Pick an age, and it has it’s bloody parts. Sure it is our modern times looking back on those times, but i do believe it is all pretty well documented historically. I am not basing these impressions of old times on hollywood impressions of them.
I am not saying that we live in less violent times necessarily. A less legally and openly violent time perhaps?
Like I said earlier, I’m sure it has an effect but that effect isn’t making people more violent. And I’m not just guessing what happened in the past. It’s recorded history. To say that all of recorded history has been changed to make it MORE violent is ridiculous. If anything it’s probably been sanitized and made less violent.
Just 200 years ago dueling was an accepted and legal (in many parts of the world) way of resolving an argument. And the winner wouldn’t be considered a murder, but a hero. Heck, in the original Olympics eye gouging was allowed in wrestling competition.
And that’s nothing compared to all of the terrible atrocities committed by people throughout history. None of which was caused by “the media”.
Can you travel across this country with your family safely, carrying all kinds of valuables and goods without worrying about being accosted by bandits? It hasn’t been that way for very long. It is STILL not that way in many parts of the world.
If you want to compare parts other parts of the world… How about the countries that are still controlled by warlords. Were rape and murder are daily occurrences. Where it’s incredibly dangerous for foreigners to visit. Where missionaries and aids workers are often murdered. You think it’s that way because of TV or “the media”?
I am not saying that stuff didn’t happen, I’m pointing out what is emphasised by our media today.
Just 200 years ago dueling was an accepted and legal (in many parts of the world) way of resolving an argument. And the winner wouldn’t be considered a murder, but a hero. Heck, in the original Olympics eye gouging was allowed in wrestling competition.
Yes, and George Bush legalised torture.
Can you travel across this country with your family safely, carrying all kinds of valuables and goods without worrying about being accosted by bandits? It hasn’t been that way for very long. It is STILL not that way in many parts of the world.
This is what i’m talking about.
How often were people robbed by bandits?
How many reported incidents in our history can you find of people being robbed by bandits?
Was 1856 a good year for bandit robbings?
I’m not saying people wern’t robbed by bandits, I’m questioning the frequency at which people were being robbed compared to the people who wern’t.
What exactly is the discussion here? Is America safer now than it was in 1856 (A great year for bandits!)? I’m sure it is. But in 1856 we were a very young, still developing country with a lot of wild places that weren’t very controlled. There were plenty of other places in the world that were a lot safer than America in 1856. And I’m sure there were plenty of places in history that were safer than America is now. It’s not like we have some steady, upward trend of “safety” that we can all rely on - it just depends on the situation.
What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, transformers t-shirts.
Battle of Seatle - Fight between Native Americans and settlers. 2 settlers killed, at least 28 Native Americans dead 80 wounded.
Battle of Rivas - Battle between Costa Rican militia and Nicaraguan forces.
Pottawatomie Massacre - 5 pro-slavery settlers killed by abolitionists.
Violence in Senate - A South Carolina representative beats the Senator of Massuchussets with a wooden cane in the US senate.
And that was just some highlights… Obviously I don’t know exactly how many people were murdered or accosted by bandits or whatever. Because it wasn’t reported. And that is the difference between then and now. Now we have the news to report all the violence. It only seems like a lot more.
Not too many years later after 1856 the American civil war started, which was an incredibly bloody time in American history none of which could possibly be blamed on “the media”.
Anyway, just forget this as it’s obvious your view point can’t be changed.
Let’s go back to making fun of 40 year olds who wear Transformer t-shirts.
The fact that 1856 was a tumultuous time for America is just a detail. I think the main point being made is that the entire world doesn’t seem to get progressively more peaceful every year.
I am not arguing that the world is any more peaceful. I am arguing against the idea that violence is caused by reading violent books or watching violent movies or seeing violence on the news.
Thus I was using history as an example to show a time when we had plenty of violence with very little or no media influence. Apparently my “accosted by bandits” comment was counter productive.
[quote=Gundark;2335729]I am not arguing that the world is any more peaceful. I am arguing against the idea that violence is caused by reading violent books or watching violent movies or seeing violence on the news.
Thus I was using history as an example to show a time when we had plenty of violence with very little or no media influence. Apparently my “accosted by bandits” comment was counter productive.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone is saying that violence is directly caused by violent TV shows, books ,etc.
It was suggested that violent media influenced people to be more violent, if not directly causing violence. I don’t agree with that. If you start going into that direction it leads to a slippery slope of censorship, book burnings and government control of media. All of which is bad.
It’s not that I don’t think that our media is often too over-the-top violent, it is. It’s that the level of paranoia has reached such a level that we are banning people from flying for wearing a t-shirt with a picture of a robot on it.
