*Originally posted by bit-101 *
no, no, no. math is a tool we use to create art.
which is a greater achievement? michelangelo’s “david” or the chisel he used to carve it?
Michelangelo’s david. So what? Are you trying to compare math with a chisel, whatever that may be?
Let me ask you one question then: which is the greater achievement? my 2-year-old sister’s drawing or Newton’s laws of movement?
pom 
(evil twice, you’ll notice)
“Art inspires. Math creates” - Kirupanicus
Cheers!
KirupaWhoLovesCheesyOneLiners
How about “Math structures, art extrapolates”.
I’m not sure either one of the verbs I put there exist, but you get the idea (which is, to sum-up briefly, math>art).
No, I’ve got a better one. “Math rulez, art suckz”. A bit too straightforward maybe?
*Originally posted by ilyaslamasse *
**Which is the greater achievement? my 2-year-old sister’s drawing or Newton’s laws of movement?
**
To me, your 2-yr-old sister’s drawing is a greater achievement. I can appreciate that more than Newton’s laws. Newton’s laws aren’t really Newton’s laws. They are the laws of the world and the way it behaves. They were predetermined…Newton just had some common sense and said, ‘oh yeah…’
A chisel is the tool that a sculptor uses to carve the rock.
Bit was saying that math is just the tool that is used to create a much large, more beautiful masterpiece.
You could paint using math. I saw some pictures at an art exhibit that had all the strange mathematical symbols arranged in an artistic manner. Quite strange ehh? 
Cheers!
Kirupa 
art came before math? I find that an aguable case. There’s no proof of that. Math, as bit has eliquently put it, was here all along, Art needed man to make it flat out, not discover it. Now some may say that proves that math is not an achievement of man, but I think that’s an opinion more so than a fact. What is an achievement? Math still needed to be conquered… which is an achievement in and of itself. It’s much easier for a cave man to draw a line and then four more and say “grunt” (translation: nice gazel) it’s a much greater achievement for a caveman to say, “ugg, grunt, ugg ook” (translation: oh, 3 plus 2 is 5) And that’s not even covering algebra yet, just simple addition. Now take that same limited mind (slightly more advanced I admit) and have it figure out that x+y=5, given y=2, x must equal 3; or even better -3+x=5. Now you’re talking about a serious accomplishment.
Math itself… no it’s not a greater accomplishment, but the understanding of math is harder by far to accomplish than understanding how to make art.
pom, i’d have to see the drawings in question.
i’m not trashing math. it was a tough choice for me.
math is totally cool, but by itself,kind of useless. you have to do something with it. you can do all kinds of things with it - artistic or boring or productive or evil.
an artist can take math and imbue his own life into it, creating something awesome.
art can use math, or have nothing to do with it. when their paths cross, that’s pretty cool.
I think you make a very good point Dave, and I agree on pretty much everything you said. But I’d like to come back to what Jubby said:
*Originally posted by Jubba *
**
To me, your 2-yr-old sister’s drawing is a greater achievement. I can appreciate that more than Newton’s laws. Newton’s laws aren’t really Newton’s laws. They are the laws of the world and the way it behaves. They were predetermined…Newton just had some common sense and said, ‘oh yeah…’**
First of all, I don’t have a sister. Not so important.
I hope you’re only trying to shock me, because otherwise I’m coming down to your house to knock you down. 
When I read what you wrote, it looks like Isaac just woke up one day, an apple fell on his head, he looked up at the stars and said "But of course! G=gM1/r² !!
Bit, I’m not trying to trash art either, believe me. It’s just that your example was a very bad one, so I had to give an even worse. :evil:
And for Christ’s sake Jubby, my sister’s drawing is an achievement for whom? Her, me, my parents.
Newton invented modern physics and differential calculus…
Last thing: why is philosophy not a possible choice?
Last thing: why is philosophy not a possible choice?
because he didn’t think of it, but I have to admit that you make a good statement by bringing it up. I would have had a harder time deciding if that was one of my choices.
my illustrations were very simple… but look at Pom’s
G=gM1/r²
just look at that for a minute or two. You know how hard a thing that is to grasp for your average modern human? Now imagine that you’re still sleeping on dirt, and fighting over who’s god is tougher than who’s… NOW think about the formula from that perspective. Art doesn’t hold a candle, sorry.
I believe you are arguing left brain and right brain thinking…apples and oranges, so to speak…
In my opinion, math would not have come to it’s current point, if at first Man did not use art to explain what was on his mind…
again, in my opinion, philosophy would not have evolved without art first being a way of expressing that philosophy…
Rev:elderly:
Actually, art could not possibly be developed without phylosophising (god my spelling sucks) a subject.
I think that you’re arguing “the chicken and the egg”.
I find it interesting that no one chose Religion. Which says 1 of 2 things:
or
Which always brings an interesting point in my mind. If we think the latter, did man make up religion as a reason for justifying our existance. I think for alot of people, humanity is pointless without a greater Existance, or a plan.
Its just stuff i think about constantly =)
i dont think religions is an achievement. i dont like religion at all. but i just added incase someone was into that kinda stuff.
Hey ray,
I am quite religious (Christian), and I believe religion is an accomplishment - but I also believe that religion is an individualistic matter. Whatever choice you make about religion is an accomplishment for you (and only you!) and probably not meant to be shared with all of humanity (unless the venue is appropriate). I would pick math/art on the basis that it is something that everyone uses at sometime in their life.
I doubt you will find anyone who claims that math and art do not exist!
Cheers!
Kirupa :q:
lol… I’m with you on that one Phil…
I still think the greatest invention is the escalator-to-nowhere, right behind it are the giant magnifying glass and skyscraper made out of popsicle sticks (gotta love the simpsons).
But seriously… no one mentioned Spam?! Come on now, “meat-product-in-a-can” what could possibly beat that???
Peace 
:: Copyright KIRUPA 2024 //--