48 hours… time to leave bud
haha… I was just going to post a thread with that same subject… verbatim
Does anyone have the digital countdown clock?
It will be an interesting 48 hours to say the least.
Yeah… Yippe… This is going to be fun huh?! :beam:
blahhhh
this sucks
i think it has to be done… but pointless killing is never fun
hm ? Iraq war ?
Stupid politicians… I think everyone who is not succesfull in getting a real job is getting a politician ? or ? ;p
Well after watching the speach - he makes a good case. I mean war is a terrible thing and I pray it doesnt happen, but if it does at least he’s telling us a good reason for it.
(even though we all know there is a little more behind it…)
Mr. Bush is probably the best story teller ever ;p
I don’t get it how he can look this serious when he is talking this nonsense ;D
hm, i didn’t want to hurt you guys…
all i kept thinking about during the speech was that one image where they show a teleprompter with the words breathe in/breahe out… you know the one
What case did he make? He said the same thing he’s been saying all along… they are in breach of 4141 and 12 other UN charters… but he offered no proof of those violations. We will NEVER see the evidence that is required to prove Bush’s war is just.
Bush is a woosy texan who likes to wag his @%@# in the face of the world… and it’s gonna get us all in a lot of ****.
well, I dont think I can TOTALLY blame Bush. He seems to me more like a figure head… he’s being controlled by wolfowitz, rumsfield and cheney, who have wanted to end it with Iraq for a long time.
You have to admit that this problem has been brewing for 12 years or so. And it had to end sometime. As much as we’d like to see evidence, I do belive saddam has wmd. He’s been able to hide them from UN weapons inspectors in the past…
If this war had happened during the clinton administration, I dont think there would be such mass protest against it. But it’s Bush’s unprecedented regard for the international community that has screwed up support, and has made the US look like an arrogant empire. Bush dropped out of 5 World Treaties in his first year in power… he dropped out of the middle east process, and he totally undid any foreign policy work Clinton did. And diplomats from every country the US has dealt have described relations with the US as “humiliating.”
Bush is a moron when it comes to diplomatic relations. He came in ignorant of foreign policy, and chose as his advisors war hawks, one of which (wolfowitz), while serving under the first Bush administration, wrote a draft for foreign policy guidelines which called for a “big stick policy,” in which the use of preemtive strike was not only justified but necessary.
I think this invasion of Iraq is necessary. Of course, everyone has their interests. But you can’t deny that a liberation of the Iraqi people is a bad thing. After all of this, I think that however unjustified, Saddam has got to go.
I protest though, a foreign policy that a U.S. diplomat characterized with, “Oderint dum metuant” - Let them hate as long as they fear. Bush and his aides have not shown any CARE for multilateralism, and they’ve only tried to pass a UN resolution so that UN countries could share the cost of rebuilding Iraq.
Bush is a moron. For not being prepared as a presidential candidate, and for picking the WORST advisors in the WORLD. And I sincerely hope he does not win a re-election.
protest though, a foreign policy that a U.S. diplomat characterized with, “Oderint dum metuant” - Let them hate as long as they fear. Bush and his aides have not shown any CARE for multilateralism, and they’ve only tried to pass a UN resolution so that UN countries could share the cost of rebuilding Iraq.
ditto.
and I agree that this may be inevitable… I’m not even particularly against this war… I just think that we could have found other avenues which were more popular with the American people.
for the record… I’m not a Democrate or a Republican and I would have been against the war on principal no matter who was in office. Also… I did support the liberation of Kuait from Iraq when we went in the first time. I do believe that was a different situation entirely.
I just think that there are some moral grounds which take precedence over others. Why don’t we want the US to invade? Because it’s part of our chauvinism… all countries should be sovereign, and free from foreign interference.
Basically: “Every country gets the government it deserves” and every country should solve it’s own problems. There’s nothing wrong with that, and that’s the way it should be.
But you know what? if the US has the power to save thousands of lives by removing an evil dictator, and putting in place a democracy that will let the country grow… why not?
You know, in politics everything can be spinned… because there’s simply no issue - EVER - that is black and white. There are a lot of good things that are going to happen for Iraq because of this war. And if you stop and think about them, and think about it some more, you can convince yourself that this is a justified war. There’s no right and wrong here, it’s many shades of gray, interlocked in a complicated pattern. And you have to admit that most of the world hasn’t looked at the whole picture. It’s simply too complicated to understand, and the average person is not that informed… simple as that. Their decisions are based on the fact that they choose to focus on SOME of the shades of gray.
as for my stance - Saddam has to leave. He’s a bad leader. Really bad. If the US has to go to war, so be it. Why not bring democracy to another country? But I don’t believe for one second that Bush tried his hardest to get cooperation… cause he’s just an idiot with a big stick.
But you know what? if the US has the power to save thousands of lives by removing an evil dictator, and putting in place a democracy that will let the country grow… why not?
that’s fine lava… except that I look at our past endevors and find very few were we’ve instituted democracy. Rather, our trend is to put another dictator in place which we will just have to deal with again in another 20 years. Sometimes they are worse than the dictators we removed.
I’m pretty much a hawk. don’t get me wrong. I know that there are very few liberal hawks around… but I really am. I believe that the US has the basis for the best government model history has ever had. If we were going to dictate to the rest of the world, democracy for every country, I’d be on board. Obviously you can’t do this to all countries right off the bat… but we should start with the worst of the worst… like Iraq, and move on from there.
The fact is though…we don’t bother spreading democracy unless we have something to gain from it. That is sad. It’s pathetic that we as Americans are taught in school how we are the greatest country on earth… full of freedom. That we stand on principals. When in truth, we do no such thing. We’re out to make a buck and unless we can make that dollar off of spreading democracy, we wont bother.
You guys are doin a lot better in this thread not ripping eachothers heads off and having intelligent conversations about intelligent stuff. I’m really glad to see I didn’t create another monster. I just wanna say thanks.
Well, two very high profile Labour Government MPs have just quit. Robin Cook and someone else, not sure who yet. There’s a vote today in Parliament…
Why did they quit?
Because they don’t think that Blair should take Britain to war without backing from the UN.