[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]Well I’m here working at the bank and reaching the end of my tether. I am working every hour God sends trying to bulk up my web portfolio and its tough. I’m hoping to have at least 4 sites on the portfolio, currently looking for the last project to work on. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]Have been disheartened by the attitudes of businesses and people I offered to do sites for. Either someone in the office looks after “all that web sitey stuff”, someone’s child is a wiz at computers, they don’t need one unless you’ll do it for free. So I’ve had to resort to doing all my sites for free! However I have one or two high profile clients one of which is a very well known Irish musician. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]At the end of the day all I want is to work full time as a designer either freelance or agency. Hopefully things will get going when I have my portfolio up and running cause God knows I’m not cut out for the bank or any other job besides design. Just wondering if anyone else out there is feeling the strain of trying to get into an industry which in my opinion is loosing credibility I tell people I’m a web designer I get the usual “Oh yeah do you use dreamweaver, cause my mate is big into web design”, “Yeah got Photoshop at home and my little brother just launched his own site for his football club”. Just seems everyone is a web designer these days. Currently back to telling people I work for a bank.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
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I think its contrary. Keep in mind, the industry here in the US is probably very different than in Ireland, I think its growing. Businesses are going to need more advanced sites more frequently. I guess my suggestion is to keep building your portfolio. Offer something that the potential client’s kid can’t. You’re always going to be more skilled since you’re in the industry.
I know the feeling very well…
what I did after years doing some freelance work from time to time, is to do an internship in a new media agency.
Im in the middle of the 4 months internship and must say Im learning a lot. Im not doing much flash stuff but web desing-development in general.
not earning even the minimum but anyway, was my choice and Im sure after these 4 months I will get a very good job as I will have “agency experience” and worked for well known brands…
good luck 
salut
Yip, been there. I often tell me people to find a quote from yellow pages and compare it to my price and the quality of my work. Then they realise how much can be spent on a site and often how much is wasted on bad design. Bit of a vicious circle as when you do free sites to build up your portfolio you add to the problem. But I think virtually everyone is guilty of that at some point, I know I am. Word of mouth is the best way to find good paying customers in my experience. Do someone a good deal, pay yourself well. Instead of diong what they ask for for way less than it’s worth, try and do what they ask for, get paid what it’s worth, and then go mad giving them free extras like maybe a updatable news section or anything simple to do but is an impressive extra. Make sure they know it! That way it doesn’t undermine the profession and they are happy to sing your praises to other companies. Good luck!
Well I can mostly say that I dont do jack for free. The web is emerging and every business needs or has a website. Its to the point now where if you dont have one your not viewed as valid. That being said you do have to compete with everyone and their momma with a PC and frontpage. So what you have to do is set yourself apart. And you do that by selling yourself. Explain or show the potential client how the web is emerging and sites are smarter and more intuitive. And how a trained eye and mind would be useful in achieving the maximum potential of their web presence. My common line is “you only get one time to make a first impression”. Look at it this way, everyone can go buy tools and wrenches at Sears or Osh. DOes that mean you dont have to take your car to a mechanic anymore? No. Same with the web. Also suggest working along side of the person doing the site.
It’s quite different here in Canada too. I looked for 1 day and found a full time web design position in Toronto. if you’re confident in your skills, try and get the free out of freelance.
Web design is a very saturated market, depending on where you live. I live in New York, and this is possibly as saturated as it gets–every other guy and girl walking down the street is some kind of freelance designer! It can be rather intimidating, until you realize that while everyone may be a ‘designer,’ NOT everyone is good at it, and far from everyone has a decent eye for it.
There’s a lot of crap on the web. There are a lot of useless websites, and a lot of sites that just plain don’t need to exist. So if you’ve got a real ability for design AND real creativity, you’ll never have to worry about work as long as you work at it.
When I was doing preliminary research for a Cinematographer client, I looked around at what sites already existed for that market, and I was surprised to find that the majority of them were pretty terrible. It’s a business that relies almost solely on word of mouth, so it was understandable. Then I realized, that’s an untapped market! I did a really detailed job for the guy and now his friends are calling me. So you’re definately correct that it’s about word of mouth.
But on the other hand, there’s agency work. That’s where the money is, if that’s what you want. If you get a job doing an interactive site for Nike, you’ll be shooting up to $100/hr. Agencies you can apply to out of the blue, but in my experience I’ve met people (friends, at parties, etc) who already work for an agency (it’s amazing how many people are “producers”) and who happily offered me an in. It’s all about networking!
Oh and another thing–send your clients a thank you note after doing a job! If they liked you during the job, that will be the act that will cinch their favor
You have to build your porfolio anyway, with reel projects, ask for a reference letter after that.
What is your style, build something nice, track your time on them and be ready for a quotation later. If you bid on something and you waste your time, hum… not a good thing. It’s also the art of negociation, let them know you built a web site for this and that amount. Next time you have a good portfolio and ready to do real business and have references!
Hmm… I dunno about having references… your work should speak for itself. But the market is very saturated, such is design. And everyone knows how I feel about so-called “designers”, similarly I feel the same about web design. I had a high profile potential client come to me and tell me that I should be privledged to do work for him so I should do it for free. And personally, the time I waste doing his crap for free even though can afford it, I could be onto another guy, maybe designing it for less, but still be makin money. Personally I wouldn’t bend… someone wants it done for free, just show them how it’s an investment, if they still won’t bend… you don’t bend either and walk away.
^amen, I have ran into free stufv where you have no choice because your company agrees to do it free. But if you freelance don’t do it for free and everybody is NOT a designer, they just think they are.
K-12 school districts in the states often have the worst websites on the web, look at:
www.ricelake.k12.wi.us sheesh
They don’t pay well, but they do have a consistent budget. If you get your foot in the door…
What you need to do is learn some scripting… i noticed that everyone can do the design part but few know enough to do the actual coding of websites that bussiness want.
Just an idea.
I agree. That’s why I’m currently half way through the macromedia actionscript book (35 quid well spent I must say, especially as it’s my mates) and neck deep in php.
Yeah there are tons of sites…one person recommended me to this other web designer he said made a a good site, it looked chunky, so 90’s…
But i agree scripting is really what sets the frontpage people apart from the rest of us…though dreamweaver, i’m sure someone who doesn’t know how to do php could make a mysql/php site…it would just be quite awkwardly coded 
but what happens when you get things that code for you…pretty much you make a basic description and using keywords it codes for you, though i’m quite sure people would get frustrated because they would have to describe how everything works exactly,
WHEN YOU CLICk LINK1 IT LOADS USERNAME FROM THE TABLE USERS
looks a bit like basic
I agree with the coding part. I can design as well as code, but almost all my freelance jobs I get are for doing backends for websites, or doing some actionsript. I think the coding part is in much more demand. I’m not in a huge city, it about medium size. I have a LOT of potential clients around. I get a lot of leads from people on my college campus. I’d say I’m one of the only decent quality designers/coders in this area, which is really nice for word of mouth leads:P
The same is true of photography. Amateurs can easily make very decent photos with good equipment, but will lack necessary skills & contacts to shoot magazine covers or official portraits.
Try to hit big companies & high profile people, not middle-class ventures.
There is a very large differientiation of good design and bad design. For the attitudes you expressed, I can assure those people won’t get far and won’t reach the true essence or level of Design. I can only say that everyone including you should always keep improving the work you do. It can only reward you with good work and being apply to successfully gain a job with an agency if that is an avenue you would like to take.
How is the state of Design in Ireland? I have heard of one or two agencies like Newmedia.ie
