Islam And Terrorism

talk
21

I agree with kobrakai, about his views on how the west distorts the truth.
We have been doing it since WW2 against anyone who disagrees with us, i mean during and after the second world war they did such a number on us that many of the older generation born during that war and after STILL distrust Germans and Japanese people even though many of that generation never fought in the war, its all down to media, and all those british and american films were the “enemy” was protrayed as mindless slaves to some bond’esque villain.
When the government/s decide they want to demonise some one they can and will stop at nothing to do so.

Another point about the taliban is that since losing power the original warlords who ran the country have now essentially taken over again and now they with our help are banning womens education and other such personal liberties as well as mass kidnapping and running a booming gun and drug trade across the border with eastern european countries and terrorist groups. And thes warlords hold exactly the same beliefs which we demonised the taliban for holding , And we are now helping them…

Still though the idea that you truly believe that majority of worlds terrorism comes from arab countries is frankly laughable.
Have you forgotten the Former soviet union, that is so corrupt and has so many fractured countries with their own ideals and religions and many years of hatred, there must be 100s there alone then theres Africa i mean some areas of it are run entirely by self appointed warlords and many places with recognised governments have HUGE amounts of terrorist groups fighting them and have done for many years. Just at the moment we dont need to demonise those groups so they are called “freedom fighters” just as Al’Queda were until some one decided they were “terrorists” :alien2:

22

whats really going on is that the US controls most of the “free” media and distorts the truth according to their interests. weapons of mass destruction in iraq? what bs. taliban banned womens education? come on! did you know that during the taliban rule there was a womens university that even has a medical college?

Acctualy after viewing much of the media, it is not too horrible, yes the truth is bent but not as much as you think. For ex: on most college and univeristy campuses many students and proffessors beleive about palestine. In that conflict (we will go a bit off topic) no one is right, its a vicous self distructing cycle. Palestenians bomb a bus, so in responce the israelies level an appartment block, so in responce the paletenians blow up a night club, so in responce…

Peace will be only achieved when both sides admit wrong, and will do everything in their power to stop any violence towards each other.

PS. I also very intrested about the womens university and education, do you have a source?

Back to topic:

[COLOR=darkblue]Definition of Terrorism

“the unlawful use of – or threatened use of – force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.”
– U.S. Department of Defense publication

[/COLOR]

Again, I have many muslim freinds, I am in no way trying to debase the muslim religion. But it is a fact that most are motiated islamicaly.

As pointed out by RAND’s Bruce Hoffman, in 1980 two out of 64 groups were categorized as largely religious in motivation; in 1995 almost half of the identified groups, 26 out of 56, were classified as religiously motivated; the majority of these espoused Islam as their guiding force.

Ave,
About the old soviet terror groups, many are gone now, because of the end of the cold war, and those before where Politicaly motvated, not religiously. And the ones that are still left that are motivated religiously are many of the Chechen or chechen are terrorists, who are muslim.

Now I really wonder, why is it there now. Its true, Islam, in itself is in no way a terrorist relgion. But why really wage this war, its already put Israel on the 2nd list, but the West is the main target.

23

*Originally posted by ave *
**watch out kirupa duck :stunned:

Or you might get hit in the head by one of your own VAST SWEEPING statements… **
A Kirupa, similar to most ninjas, is sneaky enough to not get hit by a Kirupa’s own statements ave. Many of the former terrorist groups in the USSR states have had ties to islam. Most of the problems themselves were caused over religious issues or rights. There are very few dictionary-defined terrorists that don’t have some relation to a religion. The religion in the modern times hapens to be Islam. I even posted stats about the percentage of muslims living in those areas around the former USSR. Nobody said israel is in the clear either.

…hands Phil a flame-war resistant suit for an extra layer of protection :slight_smile: There are some good Islam states like the UAE Phil - not all of them are bad. Just most of them.

24

Okay, I will post a responce later, but…
Phil, I know you just want to state your opinion, and how you truly beleive, but not many people know or understand you, and because we have discussions with people all over the world lets try to keep this as PC as we can. Or somwhere in that area, because this can just in to a flame war on go way of topic.

25

Oi! Phil.

I am not saying dont say what you have to say, its just the way you word it sometimes… many people who wont understand, will just get offended and might start a flame war. PC is just a way to communicate with a broad international or distant audience without offending anoyone, its just something thats okay here might offend other people. (Sort of like the word “gay” among gamers; “Oh thats gay- My computer is being gay!” Its nothing to gamers but to others, like some mods on this forum get offended)
Just saying… ! :smiley:

But to answer some of your question, yes Islamic Republics opress their people, no question. But is that because they are Islamic? Would it be diffrent if they where Christian?

But I think Islam is a very vaild religion, even throught the eyes of a Eastern Christian. Mohammed, like Moses is a prophet, and many times God delivered messages to the people, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and again in Mohammed. Also, the Koran, has almost never been altered, unlike the bible, thats the point of it. Mohammed and his students knew, that if it was transmitted by word of mouth it would be altered so they wrote it down. And thats why when the Islamic Empire spread, it for one, unlike earlier desert tirbal wars, did not kill all men and sell all children and women to slavery. They even allowed Jews and Christian to practice their own religion, because they recognise both religions as valid. They might not recognise Jesus as the son of God, but they still recognize he has devine sanction and is at the least a prophet, the same wiht Jewish prophet and so on, its still only one God.

tooooo the topic…

26

Hmm… I see mostly one flaw:

I do think though that Islam and violence seem to go together; Imagine Christians today (I know of none) that would say, hey, those people are inphidels, and because of this Jehovah/Yaway says we should kills them. Now theres a real disconnect; And because of that single disconnect in Islam, where this is not only allowed but encouraged (violence) I would have to say they have sullied their own religion, regardless of whether its of God or not;

You want evil Christians, go find yourself some Christian Fundamentalists, like Timothy Mcbane, Or anyone from God’s Christian Army. The psychos they have in the middle east, we can breed em just as nasty…

I know many muslims, some from Iran some from Syria and the UAE, and some who just converted, none of them stand out as agressive or violent in any way, and never did.

I see what you mean when you say Islam and Violence goes hand in hand, but if we say this, then so do all other religions.
Christian had crusades, missionaries who converted people against their will, alienated whole cultures.

But like Islam, thats just a missuse of the religion.
Originaly like I stated earlier Muslims where, (and most still are) peacfull. Muhammed, when he re-took Mecca following the defeat of the Ulsyaha tribe, didn’t harm anyone, he just went in to the Caba, and destroyed all other religios simbols and proclamed there is only one God.

And origianly Islam was quite stable, or as stable as monarchy’s get. The Islam empire (ottoman empire) like you said lasted for 400 years. When they where discovering medicine and techonlogy Europe was still in the dark ages. This and many factors make me reject the notion that islam is inherently violent. The Koran says it, Mohammed said it, and history showed it. (not always but happened)

Do you think it might be the other way? Instead of Instablity following Islam, Islam following Instablity? :h:

27

Yeah, but History or not, it does not justefy what was done,

And anyway most Islamic terrorist groups do everything in the Name of Islam. Not islam telling them to do that.

I dont try to justefy muslim actions with christian past, but its an example that all religions at diffrent points in time commited atrocities. So from this conclusion we can draw either A) all religions are evil or B) its the way Man uses religion that makes it evil not the religion itself

There are christian terrorists now, but they arent as successfull beacuse terrorism needs an unstable eviroment to survive on, because even christianity allows some for of violence, and thats already justifies everything. Just like Islam.

28

The present will soon be history as well.

I don’t deny the fact that most terrorist groups out there are muslim. But that is only in the past few years! Most of the time it hasnt been so!

No philbo, your arguement is weak, I ask you why are there more islamic terrorist out there, you answer me by saying “Because there is”

I will not back down on this issue, because your clearly in the wrong. There is no phreedom of religion in Saudi Arabia; Egypt; Syria, Bharain; Malaysia, Indonesia; Iran or Pakistan.

Your not totaly correct, Egypt has religious freedom, so does Pakistan, but Islam is the state religion. Palestenians always respected christians and other religions. Your again wrong on Syria, which has also religious freedom. Malaysia provides religious freedom as long as it dosent debase islam. Indonisia has this written in the constitution: “all persons the right to worship according to his or her own religion or belief,” You also forget Turkey which has religious freedom and the UAE too have religious freedom as well, Bahrain to has Islam as its official religion but provides religious freedom as well, only the Saudi’s completle outlaw other religious, Iran goes only to restrict them… Now you can see your argument is riddled with bulletholes

(source: US department of state )

Your arguemtn its false because its false and they are evil because they are just dosent make any scence. Why is it so? Because aproval of the western world was about 80% in the 90’s, so the “You did it first argument” is invalid. At least show me a link where they justify their actions by blaming christians.

By your arguement all muslims in the US and Canada and the western world are evil?

29

Phil, you put Christians in the same economic state as many of the Islamic countries, and you will have a lot of Christian terrorists also.

30

*Originally posted by Sphynx *
**Can anyone tell me any single Islamic Republic anywhere that isn’t seriously oppressive to their people? Name one;

Malaysia, Indonesia? Iran, Afghanistan (phormer)?
Iraq (phormer) Saudia Arabia?

How bout Syria? No, eh?

Lets try Libya…Phailed again;

Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Bharain, Oman? They all phail the test as well…

cheers!
pj :stuck_out_tongue: **

man, how can u forget pakistan here? i’d say u.a.e is pretty cool.

31

There are also a few islamic countries that do well also. It’s not the religion but more of the economic and political region they happen to be located in.

32

Are you kidding me, as a catholic you better know that your religion has been spread my more war, torture and opretion than any other. Islam itself is not fundamentally terrorist oriented. You are mising an important detail about the countries that have the most active terrorist groups: lack of education. Only an uneducated man could possibly believe that he will go to heaven for killing the infidel. Additionally, there are societal trends in the islamic nations that were there before islam. Most middle east cultures had a violent underton for millenia.

33

I agree and disagree…

Yes about the Catholic part, (But I think Phil means its already History now)

No about Islamic terrorist. Many are educated in the west, and many come from rich families. Yes, there is a large uneducated bulk, but the the elite, the leaders and officers and many of those that do the suicide atacks are educated. Last month an attack in Gaza, was done by an educated engneer , father of two.

34

The key werd here Joe, is had…past tense. These things are history. They aren’t happening now. So its not like the pot calling the kettle black; Its more like a shiny new polished pot, calling the kettle black; Too many crimes and sins and murders are now happening because they say; You did it phirst. Bullsh*t.

NO no you are the one talking utter bulls**t man.
So its fine for chrisitianity to do as it pleases and we are ‘freedomfighters’ and ‘missionaries’ and when other religion s do the same they are ‘terrorsists’.
And who was it who said that christianity is older than muslim religion or islam , i think youll find its NOT
In fact christianity is the youngest of all the MAJOR religions.

If america and europe hadnt ignored the probs in middle east for so long and didnt keep arming them there would be no problem…

A religion that has a “scripture” that allows anyone to kill or wage a war is scary to me and the thought terrorizes me;

The phact that Islam teaches this thing called Jihad, where they can extinguish “unbelievers & Inphidels” is itself terrorism, is it not?

so you are SCARED of christianity then I HOPE.
The part where it trashes ALL other religions with no specifics just says all are wrong. And the Bible is written in such a way that it quite readily allows people to fight wars IN ITS name due to its ambiguous take on things.
But many refs in old testament go on about smiting and killing thine enemies , etc etc…

The phact that Islam teaches this thing called Jihad, where they can extinguish “unbelievers & Inphidels” is itself terrorism, is it not?

Jihad exists in Christianity to mate :m: its called a Crusade OR inquisition…or nowadays just a war on terror.
Shows what a good job US media has done on you guys , you all ALREADY assume all muslims or followers of islam are predeposed to violence…

35

A wise and tasty fortune cookie once said, not all muslims are terrorists, but majority of the terrorists are muslims :asian:

Most of the terrorist acts that occur around the world (bombings, etc.) have religious ties. With the exception of some Israeli issues, most of the activities are caused by islamic fundamentals.

36

most of the activities are caused by islamic fundamentals.

no most of them are CAUSED by the wests financial domination of the world and their general bullying and manhandling of smaller arab and eastern nations.

37

*Originally posted by kirupa *
**RB, one could guess that the westernization of the world has a lot to do with the problems. It’s a lot easier to break away from accepted traditions now-a-days moreso than ever! Also, older economies suffer with globalization. Most of the economically deprived areas that resort to violence happen to occur in largely islamic areas. **

It’s not the west. It is their islamic fundamentalist rulers. Too bad with their vast oil reserves, they can’t quite seem to distribute the income to everybody but the Top 1%. This is a problem that the islamic countries brought upon themselves. The West is just the supplier and buyer - what the countries do with the West’s money is up to them.

…that is like blaming school violence on video games. We all know that can’t be the link.

38

Too bad with their vast oil reserves, they can’t quite seem to distribute the income to everybody but the Top 1%.

dont be so naive man, like WE are any different , in the UK i would say probably about 80% of the populous get about about 20% of the wealth, i mean the rich list look at it one day…

Only dif is we have been tricked into believing we are well off.
Our governments spend the money on ‘projects’ and ‘causes’ to help us but amazingly the companies and business’s which benefit are nearly always onwed or run or have some connection to the government and its rich cronies…
Wake up man the whole world is like that just we are kept in comfortable mediocrity to apease us, ONLY dif between west and ‘arab’ countries is they arent as good or practised at HIDING thier nepharious dealings and human rights abuses.

39

You are missing my point. The poorest in the US and UK are able to afford the basic necessities. They don’t starve to death, they have access to education, a place to sleep, etc. There is no real basis for comparison between the ME countries and the West.

A few will control the wealth in any country, but the average person is a lot better off here than they are in the ME. Even the poorest in the West have the luxury of moving up the socio economic ranks. That is so not true in most of the underdeveloped nations.

Whatever the gov’t does or does not do, compared to the average underdeveloped ME nation (where many terrorists do come from), the poorest in Western society are better off. The poor in the West are poor because many either choose to live that life because of wrong choices, alcohol/drug abuse, etc. The poor in the other nations are poor because there are no opportunities for them to get out of poverty.

40

You are missing my point. The poorest in the US and UK are able to afford the basic necessities. They don’t starve to death, they have access to education, a place to sleep, etc.

HUH do you REALLY believe that the people in US or UK dont starve or die on the streets in slums etc, just we sweep it all under the carpet.

apart from that though yes you make a fair point about wealth, but i stand by my point, we are not that much better off (relative to our countires wealth that is)

EDIT re-read you post and thats NOT true poor people do not choose their path, as if they would choose to be poor they are forced into drugs/crime/etc by socio-economic boundaries which they can almost never cross.