2004 Election

talk
161

And thank you Disco-Stu for that gross over-generalization.
Its a bit hypocritical dont you think? You accuse “us” of being paranoid of conspiracy, while you are here rambaling about the “Liberal Media Conspiracy”.

Thats the trick. I never accused them of a conspiracy. I did accuse them of being liberally bias though. There’s a big difference.

to be honest bush needs to get out of the us before he tells anymore lies!!! i mean people are dieing in iraq over a lie bush said theres NO nuclear stuff bush just likes to see people die!!!

im kerry all the way

That is pretty lame. Almost every president has acted against another country during their term. Was Clinton wrong in bombing the **** out of a bunch of Iraqi sites?

MLK: That article is definitely thourough, but all of the accusations are still Enquireer style sources. A couple points brought up in there are valid, but the majority (i read the whole article, including 90% of the links) are simply “this one guy said this”. I could come up with something on how “Bush did this to me” or “I saw him doing this”, and if I didn’t back down, it would be true.

yes, good link indeed.

ok. Let’s say that Marge is indeed telling the truth. Wouldn’t the CIA, FBI, Police, Secret Services (I call them SS), NSA and my mom have better keep the lid on the thing?
now. Let’s say that Marge is NOT telling the truth. WHY wouldn’t anyone circulate those false allegations? Because it’s not newsworthy? COME ON! It’s juicy as hell and involves the Prez of the USA. Fox News would have made a whole deal out of it and blame the dems for it… we all know that.

It makes no sense, but people are so afraid to find out that govt agencies are rotten to the core, they don’t even want to think about it and prefer saying to themselves that they protect America and Americans, when they really are protecting their own interests

There is a magazine for news like that: The National Enquirer. I happen to know a state representative and a state senator here in AZ (I’m involved with a political studies group at ASU), and I can assure you, these guys have integrity. Their lives are dedicated to their children and their religion. If something were to happen that wasn’t “kosher”, and it was that big, SOMEONE would say something.

But really, i think we should drop the Margie Schroedinger thing, as i think i’ve illustrated my point that there are some things that even the supposed ‘liberal media’ won’t dare to print…

The media didn’t want anything to do with this because (a) It’s a big accusation. They wanted to verify it if anything was going on (b) It’s an ENQUIRER STORY. This had about as much validity as the president meeting aliens. Because one crazy lady says Bush raped her and her husband (…riiiight), and then she kills herself, sure that is a weird situation, but are you serious? When did Bush find the time to rape some random woman? And her husband? He’s not THAT stupid guys.

I also like how all of those links on MLK’s link are to hardcore leftist sites. No real credible sources (bring on the flames).

Ugh. MLK, you’ve fed them the !@#$ they need to base their hatred on. We’ll see what happens, come November. Here’s hoping for Dubya Reloaded.

162

And thank you Disco-Stu for that gross over-generalization.
Its a bit hypocritical dont you think? You accuse “us” of being paranoid of conspiracy, while you are here rambaling about the “Liberal Media Conspiracy”.

Thats the trick. I never accused them of a conspiracy. I did accuse them of being liberally bias though. There’s a big difference.

to be honest bush needs to get out of the us before he tells anymore lies!!! i mean people are dieing in iraq over a lie bush said theres NO nuclear stuff bush just likes to see people die!!!

im kerry all the way

That is pretty lame. Almost every president has acted against another country during their term. Was Clinton wrong in bombing the **** out of a bunch of Iraqi sites?

MLK: That article is definitely thourough, but all of the accusations are still Enquireer style sources. A couple points brought up in there are valid, but the majority (i read the whole article, including 90% of the links) are simply “this one guy said this”. I could come up with something on how “Bush did this to me” or “I saw him doing this”, and if I didn’t back down, it would be true.

yes, good link indeed.

ok. Let’s say that Marge is indeed telling the truth. Wouldn’t the CIA, FBI, Police, Secret Services (I call them SS), NSA and my mom have better keep the lid on the thing?
now. Let’s say that Marge is NOT telling the truth. WHY wouldn’t anyone circulate those false allegations? Because it’s not newsworthy? COME ON! It’s juicy as hell and involves the Prez of the USA. Fox News would have made a whole deal out of it and blame the dems for it… we all know that.

It makes no sense, but people are so afraid to find out that govt agencies are rotten to the core, they don’t even want to think about it and prefer saying to themselves that they protect America and Americans, when they really are protecting their own interests

There is a magazine for news like that: The National Enquirer. I happen to know a state representative and a state senator here in AZ (I’m involved with a political studies group at ASU), and I can assure you, these guys have integrity. Their lives are dedicated to their children and their religion. If something were to happen that wasn’t “kosher”, and it was that big, SOMEONE would say something.

But really, i think we should drop the Margie Schroedinger thing, as i think i’ve illustrated my point that there are some things that even the supposed ‘liberal media’ won’t dare to print…

The media didn’t want anything to do with this because (a) It’s a big accusation. They wanted to verify it if anything was going on (b) It’s an ENQUIRER STORY. This had about as much validity as the president meeting aliens. Because one crazy lady says Bush raped her and her husband (…riiiight), and then she kills herself, sure that is a weird situation, but are you serious? When did Bush find the time to rape some random woman? And her husband? He’s not THAT stupid guys.

I also like how all of those links on MLK’s link are to hardcore leftist sites. No real credible sources (bring on the flames).

Ugh. MLK, you’ve fed them the !@#$ they need to base their hatred on. I don’t have enough time to debunk it at the moment. We’ll see what happens, come November though. Here’s hoping for Dubya Reloaded.

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For a country that is free to pretty much do as we please…I find it sad that so many complain.

Jesus H. Christ!!! I suppose you’d prefer a fascist dictatorship, where nobody has the right to complain… suit yourself. I on the other hand am going to do what i have the right to do, whether people like you like it or not.

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heh if we were in a facist dictatorship…
I think you would have been arrested by now lol.

also this forum wouldn’t exist :wink:

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I didn’t say that we were in a Fascist Dictatorship…

I merely stated that the nature of your comment leads me to believe that you would prefer a society where nobody complains at all… hence my comment.

That statement alone is so freaking bizarre, that i am going to take precautions to make sure i never again have to read any words you type… Feel free to do the same…

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[s]Well…it would, but it would probably have a .in or .ru extension instead of the sacred - .com :stuck_out_tongue:

(and all of the topics would probably involve the same people whining about how bad fascism is lol)[/s]

167

just an old response…

Bush has an amazing ability to mislead without lying. He was able to convince us into a war on the mere suggestion of a threat without technically saying Iraq had WMDs or a direct connection to 9/11. The public was made to believe these things tangentially. More impressively, the American people barely even reacted when told all the reasons for going to war were false. 700 soldiers dead for no publicly stated reason, and we don’t even care. He makes Slick Willy look like an awkward bumbler.

Bush isn’t an idiot, he just plays one in DC.

Make no mistake: Bush is a smart man. A lot of people are disarmed by his simple downhome act…maybe that’s what scares me the most about him. He knows how to play this country.

I, for one, do not like being played.

Maybe he’s just an honest guy, and based his decision on his intelligence. The intelligence that Russia, Austrailia, Britain, and Germany had near-confirmed. Also, why does Bush get blamed for this? Saddam had violated every UN sanction for 10 years. He executed 300,000 of his own citizens in a mass grave. I’d agree. Bush isn’t an idiot. He has integrity, and believes in what he knows is right. He doesn’t care what the media, or anyone else tells him to do. I trust him as a leader. IF you don’t, fine.

Tell me how this isn’t bias:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3144249/site/newsweek/

Read every headline down the line, and count the ones that support Bush, or the ones that support Kerry. Or just the objective ones. Then read the first 2 parapgraphs to see who it REALLY supports.

Now read http://www.foxnews.com/youdecide2004/index.html these headlines and tell me what you think.

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I for one choose to get over it and make the best choices I can.

That’s the way things happen. Pr you believe that democracy is something that is natural and given; well the truth is that you have to fight for it and people in the past have fought to gain it. The feeling you give me is that you’re ready to buy everything Bush says and if we try to bring on evidence that he’s somehow wrong; you just say ‘nah, I choose to get over it’… …that’s the way fascist government appears, and believe me I’m not going to extremes here…

I also like how all of those links on MLK’s link are to hardcore leftist sites. No real credible sources (bring on the flames).

Ugh. MLK, you’ve fed them the !@#$ they need to base their hatred on. I don’t have enough time to debunk it at the moment. We’ll see what happens, come November though. Here’s hoping for Dubya Reloaded.

Hehe, you’ve got ready-made answers it appears. If you prove to me that the sources are wrong and inacurrate, then the credibility of that blog will go down. Until then, I hope it makes you rethink the events a bit…

Oh and here’s to feed you more facts: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html
(then of course i’m sure people will tell me they are made up images and the whole story was invented)…

I’m just looking for the truth, and the official version doesn’t satisfy my beliefs of veracity.

edit:

He doesn’t care what the media, or anyone else tells him to do.

Look up ‘Karl Rove’ ‘Neo cons’ or ‘Rumsfeld’ on google and then say that again…

169

the “non-leftist” sources are mute indeed. Why so? Do you think it’s because they really find those corelations irrelevent? Come on… They have much to lose if they go against the flow, that’s why they’re shutting up. The press is only as free as they want you to think they are. It’s not a 4th power anymore, they work hand in hand with the government (not only in the states, in most countries).
Why people don’t look deeper into those matters really boggles me. I find myself comforted that some people are not duped though, and I hope that with the growth of the Internet, they become more numerous.
I don’t know what I’m supposed to be looking at in the links you provided Disco…

Now… let’s start again.
Why would anyone in the world be looking at what the US is doing? There is something called globalization. We’re not in the 1500s where Spain could take over the Americas and the rest of Europe wouldn’t care (not that they didn’t, it’s just to scale things). I look at your actions in the Gulf and then I look at the 11th of March bombing in Spain. If you don’t see any links between the 2, I do. What the US does abroad has an impact on the rest of the world. Don’t act as if the US were like Cameroon or Madagascar. They have the strongest world economy, the biggest army, they have more nukes than I have hair, and I shouldn’t be looking at what the US is doing? Come on.
Many people would be better off in a socialist country, because they are imo more humane than what the US is right now… <insert flames here>

I get tired of reading a lot of this stuff because it just repeats and repeats and repeats - people always think they can do better, deserve better, and they expect better…and quite frankly when a human is involved there will never be perfection.
People DESERVE better, so they EXPECT better, and quite frankly, I believe they CAN do better than Bush. We’re not talking about perfection, just making it better, which is far from being the case right now in the US of A.

The media is biased, the government does stuff we don’t know about, one person can’t change a country’s political system…and guess what I don’t care lol - I’ll defend and serve this country for as long as I can, because here, I am free.
You’re not really free, you just haven’t reached the limits of your cell. And there’s a big difference. I wouldn’t go as far as majeye saying you’re borderline fascist (my interpretation…) , because I don’t have the balls, but I think the same anyhow. I’ll still read what you post though. You’re so far right, it’s scary.

and quite frankly the 9/11 article is fluff to me…sure do some research and place some events on a timeline - nothing I haven’t seen. But I tell you what each of those incidents had more details to them than the transcript and paragraph they supplied each of them.
Everyone wants the “whole” truth, and well quite frankly you will never get it - so you can either get over it, fester on it until you go crazy, or move to another country.
I for one choose to get over it and make the best choices I can.

… you’re screwed man…

and yes Pomme the journalists should deliver the news unbiased, but LOL in all reality that could never happen…it won’t be unbiased until I witness the events with my own eyes…which again will never happen so its a mute point.
In the 18th century, the French Revolution should never have happened; after all, there’s been centuries of feudalship and monarchy, why would things change? BECAUSE PEOPLE MADE IT HAPPEN. If you don’t fight for your ideals, you’re screwed.
But read me clear. I’m not asking for an unbiased press, I’m asking for a FREE press. And I’m sorry to announce to you that a FREE press does not exist anymore, press groups are too tied up in global economics to raise their voice any higher than what the powers that be want them to.

and I don’t know what people will think of this - but I have yet to see a well thought believable and plausible reason why GW Bush should not be President again. It just isn’t there…everyone keeps trying to take these pebbles and make a mountain…it’s not happening.

you want ONE reason? one GOOD reason? I’ll have you give me reasons not to elect Kerry instead first (without being partisan, please).

For a country that is free to pretty much do as we please…I find it sad that so many complain.

The country or its citizens? Cause it’s clearly not the same thing… I’ve seen your country transgress international laws, so yeah, the US does as it pleases, but I see reasons to complain about THAT type of freedom. Don’t think that, because your country has a bigger peni… er army, it has the right to fishtail me… er transgress treaties you’ve signed.

Point. Counterpoint. Match.
???

170

Oh and here’s to feed you more facts: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html
(then of course i’m sure people will tell me they are made up images and the whole story was invented)…
Oh my, it is Phil reincarnated… We have been over the conspircy theory of 9/11. The plane that hit the first tower was not a small commuter plane. I am sure we have all seen the footage taken by the camera crew inteviewing a fire dpt in new york where the first plane flys overhead. That is not a small plane, it is huge… If you need video everyone go check out Phils site there is more crap there than you could possibly want to see.

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kirupaforums could always establish itself on the moon, i mean deathstar, i mean moon.

majeye - you probably don’t see this lol, but I’m going to waste my time anyway - you take things too close to the extreme, what I said was in jest and I didn’t say we were in a facist dictatorship either lol - go ahead and use that awesome little “ignore” feature, I’m still going to read what you say, because quite frankly I can stomach it.

GAME ON

*crap did we all post at the same time lol!?

mlk - no in all seriousness I have researched just like everyone else here, I’ve read all the articles, heck Phil Jayhan even sent me a butt load of stuff to read - and after reading all of it, on both sides, I’ve reached the decisions I have. I went through the same information you all have, only I came out with a different conclusion.

pomme - my one reason?
kerry’s voting record

and if I am allowed more:
his use of vulgar language
his ethical views
talk of change and reform with no clear plan

his “programs” that sound like glorified “cheese lines” - and I’ve stood in one before.
his wife’s behavior and mouth
see I don’t have just one reason, I have a ton that mean a lot to me and have nothing to do with a party…

I would venture to say this at least, that i’ve read just as much on this subject, watched all the videos, looked at all the 9/11 reconstruction images, looked at all the articles, timelines, transcripts, etc… voting records of both canidates - past lives, etc. and I’ve reached my decision and I find it rude that you assume that I’m just following my nose where ever the conservatives tell me to go - when I reply to what you all post I take it for granted that you’ve read the if not the same, at least equivalent material that I have…

are we discussing here? or are we judging each other?

I for one am merely discussing.

I’ll say it again, I vote for the person, not the party.

Interesting factoid - in a recent study they found that people who are looking for a “leader” in a president favor Bush over Kerry.

People focusing on programs and issues favor Kerry over Bush.

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you want ONE reason? one GOOD reason? I’ll have you give me reasons not to elect Kerry instead first (without being partisan, please).
Because the election will look the the one in Spain. If we change Presidents now we are telling the trrorists that their actions have an impact. I would say the same thing if we had a Dem in office right now. Stay the course with the man making progress right now. There has not been another attack since 9/11. There have been attempts, but no successes.

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This link sums it all up for me.

http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/sovereignty.mov

:hr:

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About the media bias - I was scouring through google and I found that the ones that are vocally complaining are those who hold extremist views. If you want to read random hearsays from people with a .com address and a vivid imagination, give the tabloids a shot. That’s what they are for. The media is not going to put random dribble that you may think is important.

Regarding whoever that was that committed suicide, if it were credible it would be covered. I don’t remember the press holding back against any of Pres. Clinton’s various affairs and/or ex-girlfriends. Papers can get sued for slander if the information they put cannot be verified. The NYT, Washington Post, etc. are not blogs where the disillusioned write whatever happens to come in their mind. They are educated, intelligent people who cover events based on factual evidence - not hearsay.

With the use of the internet, people have access to ‘credible’ sources of information worldwide. If you don’t like the US press, read the BBC for example. (looks at watch waiting for someone to complain against the BBC…:evil: )

lunatic - was that at the minority press conference in CA a few weeks ago? What angered a lot of native americans, if I read the accounts of that, was that the Prez. made it seem that their sovereignty was granted to them - as in, nobody fought or died for it :stuck_out_tongue:

[size=1]EDIT: Also, if you guys feel like discussing conspiracy theories, find another forum to do that in. It reflects a lot better on this forum when the topics discussed are intelligent and rational.[/size]

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I’m not sure which press conference that was. But the fact that that’s the best the President can come up with on the fly - when he isn’t given a script or when he is unable to read from a teleprompter - should frighten everyone.

In theory, the President speaks for people of the U.S. Ours can’t even speak intelligently (not always, but often, especially when on his own) and that is embarassing.

:hr:

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my one reason?
kerry’s voting record
and if I am allowed more:
his use of vulgar language
his ethical views
talk of change and reform with no clear plan

Kerry’s voting record. As in “flip flop”? He actually stuck with his party’s line. So I wouldn’t say it’s flip flop, it’s more like loyalty :wink:
His vulgar language. At least, he has vocabulary…
His ethical views. Partisan.
His “plans”. Partisan.
And man, don’t put his wife in the picture, she’s not the president…

We’re discussing indeed. And I’m sorry I said you were far too right for me. I shouldn’t have. My bad. You still are though.

BlindLizard> hu-hu. It WOULD sound like a good reason. But your theory goes exactly the same way around… We shouldn’t vote for Kerry because the terrorists would “win”. So by voting Bush, you’re also saying their actions have had an impact, as you’d be voting for the president in function whatsoever… The rest of your post. lol.

Lunatic> :slight_smile: gotta love the answer tho. Reminds me of nucular weapons.

Kirupa> still, the press isn’t free. It’s limited in its freedom. And it has the right to say ANYTHING (even hearsay or lies) when it comes to the president of the US. It’s part of their limited freedom. But no, that’s not why they didn’t take the risk. (and the BBC is as much limited in freedom as any other press group. They are not independant. And that dependance has a great impact on what a newspaper writes or a newsshow shows. - you can stop looking at your watch now) [edit] you’d be surprised at how journalists - especially investigation journalists - work… Mostly hearsay… I’m not ****ting you on that one. The basis of journalism is “if you hear of something fishy, go fishing… you’re bound to catch a shoe or a whale, but you’ll catch something” THEY DIDN’T EVEN BOTHERED GOING FISHING.[/edit]

It reflects a lot better on this forum when the topics discussed are intelligent and rational.
Like the “are gamers athletes” thread :evil: ? That’s mind-challenging for sure, very intelligent to say the least, so very rational too… Because people stay in the track and go with the flow, they can’t see the bigger picture. People are so eager to believe the mainstream media, but what guarantee do you have that what they are saying is so much more intelligent than what bloggers say?

PLEASE READ “BLACK LIST” BY BORJESSON. PLEASE. ITS INSIGHTFUL AT THE VERY LEAST. YOU’LL THINK TWICE ABOUT BELIEVING MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEXT TIME. (capitals to enhance)

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talking about the PENTAGON here. Not the WTC. You’d have to admit its kinda wierd there are still unshattered windows 2 yards away from the hole made by a 757 boeing plane.

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Okay, on the topic of Liberal Media… this is how it is.

There are Liberal and Conservative columinists and reporters! Even in the new york times, acctualy NY times has quite a few conservative columnist, its just that many of the editors are liberal. Thats just because alot of those editors where in school during the 70’s during the lingeral Viet-nam war, and have sometimes liberal views. If you look through the NY times, you can find conservative articles easily, its just where they are that is controled by the editors.

Same can be said about TV news, with the exception of Fox, which has probobly Conservative Managers and bosses, but they have some liberal reporters too. But the liberal Editors are influenced through the corporations they are owned by, to many times Conservative views and vica-versa.

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Oh my, it is Phil reincarnated… We have been over the conspircy theory of 9/11. The plane that hit the first tower was not a small commuter plane. I am sure we have all seen the footage taken by the camera crew inteviewing a fire dpt in new york where the first plane flys overhead. That is not a small plane, it is huge… If you need video everyone go check out Phils site there is more crap there than you could possibly want to see.

Read the links before arguing.

Oh and kirupa, I’m sorry this isn’t any conspiracy theory but we’re trying to be rational, as you pointed out. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t believe everything I’m told. I’m just like that, I like to verify things myself.

Some might call that conspiring, I call it comon sense.

Cheers

mlk

ps: i’m banning myself from the ordered forums from now on. This just sums up to who-posts-last-wins… I’m outta that game…

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I’m winning!

:run: