Yes, I remeber watching CNN and Bush was personaly wrestling Terrorists to the ground keeping them from harming americans…
But Im afraid Blindlizard is correct that this is why Bush will be elected again. Americans hate switching presidents during a war, and they never have. A president during a time of war always got re-elected.
I agree 
pomme - the reason I mention keeping such topics off the forums is that that such topics were discussed in the past…it didn’t end well, so a few mods and I decided it would be best to leave the flame-bait topics for those forums designed for it :hat:
(and all of the topics would probably involve the same people whining about how bad fascism is lol)
And not how great fascism is? :h:
hhehehehehehe
[ot]RB - that avatar is great! I’m definitely going kommunist this weekend, and I’ll use your avatar along with a modified footer I’ll create tomorrow![/ot]
oh my that avatar is amazing lol -
Nice avatar and footer!
It’s like buying Tetris in Moscow (for Gameboy) from a corner merchant…
[ot]You all can discuss the avatar RB created without derailing an already derailed thread 
http://www.kirupaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=69427[/ot]
/me officially quits arguing on the internet.
You’re not really free, you just haven’t reached the limits of your cell. And there’s a big difference. I wouldn’t go as far as majeye saying you’re borderline fascist (my interpretation…) , because I don’t have the balls, but I think the same anyhow. I’ll still read what you post though. You’re so far right, it’s scary.
Pomme_ This had me wondering for quite awhile. The whole Matrix thing of how do you know you are in prison if you cannot see the walls… Are any of us really free?? It finally hit me. We are not in prision here in America because prision would suggest you cannot leave. Well that is one right we have…anyone here is free to leave at any time. You are right, while we do have rules, of which not everyone agrees, if you don’t like them leave.
In the absence of laws you have anarchy. As far as I can tell no anarchist system in history has worked. In order for many people to co-exist, you need rules to protect everyone from everyone else. In America we choose those rules through the use of elected representatives. Using this sytem will never allow all people to agree on all laws, and as far as I can tell there is no form of government that can boast that.
As far as I can tell no anarchist system in history has worked.
There hasnt been a true anarchist system either…
Plus see I don’t beleive that we live in a Hobsian World that the Goverment is here to protect us from each other.
BLizard> ok, so you also admit you are limited in your freedom, right? That’s what laws are for. Though I do find it necessary to HAVE laws, those that are being passed in the US right now are restricting your freedom more and more.
Freedom is just a word on paper. Primo Levi, in “If it were a man” (?? I think it is in that book) said that he was free in his concentration camp, because he was more favored than most other Arbeitslager Prisonner, but objectively, he’s not, right?
The matrix deal is BS, but a government reduces your freedom. I’m just saying “watch out, the govt is reducing it more than it should”.
Pomme_, that is exactly why I’m a conservative. I’m not into expanding government. Social programs are the start of that. Republicans are slightly more “spend happy” than I am, but they are conservatively minded.
Ok. So, let me get this right. You’re a conservative because you like it when your government is reducing your freedom (contrarily to others, not only are you aware of it, you AGREE with it?). THAT, you’ll have to explain.
Conservatives don’t want to reduce freedom. They reduce government control. Thats why Libertarians (who I mostly ally myself with) believe in less government, and more social responsibility. I vote republican because they tend to follow more of the lines of true conservativism. Read some William F. Buckley sometime. He is one of the greatest conservative writers ever, and epitomizes most of my beliefs. Liberalism is for a more socialist environment. They seek more government programs and control. I am for more private organization, and for a lesser role in government.
Conservatives bring less government control, huh. Such as the Patriot Act, I presume… What you’re not seeing is that, true, people who tend to vote right want less government control. But people who vote hard-right (extreme-right, royalists, etc) want MORE government control (ie: check out “fascism”, it goes real well with passionate patriotism and overseas wars, two things present in the US at this time.). What I was saying in my previous post is that your ACTUAL goverment is leaning towards a HARD-right policy and that is why they are reducing your freedom(s). I’m just saying “watch out”. Hitler wasn’t yet a threat to the world when he was first elected - but his program was. I’ll go get my Godwyn point now…
sidenote: the political board is bi-dimentional (left/right), unfit in our day and age I think. We should find a new political SPHERE to define…
btw, there is nothing wrong with either version of the patriot act - I’ve read them both - and quite frankly nothing wrong with them - especially in the Information Technology sections… it’s stuff that has been done for years, the government is just now putting it into an official “unified” law - whoop de doo - I mean we have a system that monitors every phone conversation in the US and checks it for key words…no one complains about that lol…
at any rate - democrats in their guise to serve the people more often than not put restrictions on that service in the form of complex or inadequate social reform programs.
conservative views want our freedoms protected from those “outsiders” who would want to harm them… if you are a law abiding american citizen then you should have no problem 
and to be quite honest to tie in the capitalism goals of conservatives - it makes only fair sense to protect what you have earned…or maybe everyone should take down the fences around their homes?
I’m tired lol - just got back from the gym and some of this is over-generalized, but hopefully you can see the meaning…if not…oh well lol its FOOD TIME.
Pomme_, true “HARD RIGHT” is vying for complete anarchy or a libertarian “do what you want, and the government just organizes the army”. You are refering to “HARD LEFT”. Hard left is communism and fascism. Read 1984. The more government programs we instate, the worse off we will be. Privitize them and prevent monopolies. Thats all we need to do. And lay out to me exactly what freedoms I am losing in the patriot act. People are comparing the Patriot Act to 1984 style “big brother” tactics. It’s not. I’ve read most of the complaints about it, and I’ve read the actual document (mostly).
I’m just saying “watch out”. Hitler wasn’t yet a threat to the world when he was first elected - but his program was.
Bush isn’t Hitler. Bush is in this for the good of the country. He believes that he can do the best job of the candidates. Everyone has all this talk about how Bush is involved in these secret programs and that he is involved with shady business. SHOW ME SOME REAL EVIDENCE. Don’t point me to your conspiracy theorist site. Show me real cold hard facts. Farenheight 9/11 is a !@#$ing joke. (http://www.moorelies.com/) Ugh. Work is over. Goin home.
fascism
Fascism is acctualy far right, its hard-nationalism.
Read 1984. The more government programs we instate, the worse off we will be. Privitize them and prevent monopolies. Thats all we need to do. And lay out to me exactly what freedoms I am losing in the patriot act. People are comparing the Patriot Act to 1984 style “big brother” tactics. It’s not. I’ve read most of the complaints about it, and I’ve read the actual document (mostly).
First of all 1984, is not a valid poltical sience document, its a Si-Fi book, both liberals and coservatives have to get over that you can find that book in the Fantasy Section!
While I agree to keep goverment in check, total privatilzation and lassaiz faire dosent work! Thats a good reason the great depression happened. And privitalization on huge scales is what happened in Russia after the fall, and it transformed it in to Oligarchy, and now this is creating a war between Strong arm gov tactics and big-business. Huge goverment is as bad as Huge buisness control. There has to be a balance.
Second of all, you come out sounding extremly hypocritical. You come out against goverment programs, but suddenly you’re defending the Patriot act, which is a goverment program of epic proportion! And is also an infringment on human liberties!
What problems? How about the fourth amendment? Freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures? How about your privacy? And the Fifth amendment? Because non-citezens can be jailed on mere suspicion and be denied re-admission without proof? And suspects convicted of no crime may be detained indefinitly in six month increments without judical review? Which interfires with Forteeth Amedment which: Allows all persons (citezenz or not!) within the US are entitled to due process and equal protection of the laws. And the sixth amendement; Right to a speedy public trail by an impatioal jurry, and be informed of the facts of the accusation to confront wintesses and have assistance of counsel!
And this is a-ok with you? Nothing like the 1984 evils of the goverment?
People are comparing the Patriot Act to 1984 style “big brother” tactics. It’s not.
Oh… its not? Oh I thought it was, but since its not, then… it’s okay! Thanks for reasuring me so well…Phew! I was scared for a second…
i completely agree with russianbeers line of thinking, the lesser of two evils is Kerry. I don’t wanna see bush get another 4 years, i would rather have flipflop kerry… although they both are bad canidates IMO.
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