Affirmative Action

talk
1

I thought this was a good time to bring this up after the U of Michigan Supreme Court case. I hope this doesn’t turn into a flame war and doesn’t offend anybody.

What are your feelings on Affirmative Action in todays society? Is it obsolete or do we still need it to ensure the majority is fair to the minority? Is it needed in all aspects of our society or just in jobs or just in college etc…? What are your feelings on how the Supreme court ruled? Was michigan’s undergrad and law school enrollment policies “reverse racism” or were they just ensuring a diverse student body?

2

I am totally against it. I feel that it robbs the best man (woman) for the job. I am certainly not racist, but please. So because I need to fill a certain amount of spots with blacks, hispanics, arabs whatever…the person that would have gotten the position would be turned away…

I saw the U Michigan chart for points awarded. It was gross. Most people with valid achievements got five points. but because you were born with a little more pigment in your skin you get 20 Points?! Thats like adding a full grade point to your GPA

Garbage.

I am all for anti-discrimination laws and persucuting those that do discriminate. But affermitave action has most certainly got to go.

Just my opinion.

3

I really see both sides of the arguement. ( I too hope I don’t piss anyone off by my ability to do so.)

On the one hand (the more important one in my opinion) it is absolutely unconstitutional for a white person to be denied equal oppertunity because of the color of his/her skin. That, I do not believe, anyone will deny. On the other hand, those of us who don’t understand how such a rulling can be made, must take a moment to reflect upon the nature of education and how it passes from one generation to the next. We (the white devil:) ) spent several centuries repressing their (the African + Hatian + Jamacan + American Native) people. Our ancestors denied them not only the education that they were receiving, but ALSO denied them an education from their own native land. We kept them as stupid and passive as we could get them. Now one thing that is proven to be true is that an educated adult who raises a child, will produce an offspring with a higher ability to learn, than that of a less educated adult. This happens for a variety of reasons including language that a parent uses with their child, what types of music the child is introduced to (in the first 4 years mainly), and what knowledge in general the parent can pass on. So, if you repress the education of a people over several generations you will effectively reduce their ability to raise a child with the same educational advantage as another, less repressed culture. The (so called) Liberal (majority?) is seeking with rulings like this to even the bar out so that the advantage between the races becomes nonexistant.

The problem I find with the current set up is that it gives the advantage based upon race, not upon culture. An African imigrant was not necessarily repressed educationaly, likewise, there are some white people from the back waters of America who may very well have a lower degree of capability to learn. The present system does not take into consideration such finite details that play a very vital role in determining if a person has a lower ability to learn than the average.

Either way… I’d like to see a system that does not repress my culture for the sake of another. We are really smart in this country and should be able to come up with a better system than the curent one.

I’m not sure if I’m explaining that really well. It is a complex and touchy subject to say the least.

4

First of all lets not say we the white people, because Russians never had land claims in Africa, only a bit in asia, and we got kicked out mighty fast :stuck_out_tongue:

But anyway, I think affirmative action is good, but just not in the same way. I think it should be ratified and open to all people, but instead of looking on race, lets look on income levels. That way it will be fair, or more or less fair.

5

(that’s why I put “white devil” implying those of us who’s ancestors actually took part in the redistribution of cultures for profit. I do not mean to imply that all white people had a hand in that. My own family was part of the slavery “freedom” train that ran slaves to the north and towards protection. Certainy every white person is an individual, as well as their ancestors.)

6

I thought white women reaped the most benefits from affirmative action. Which is something to think about.

7

I would think that it was African American Females myself… but I really haven’t looked at the data on who has the most points per situational.
White women were also very repressed educationaly. Their repression has been going on since the dawn of time.

8

Bole Kevalangi tevoro!

(hello white devil) [Fijian]

Woukwachiotcha!

(White Devil) [Ace Ventura II]

Haole

(White person/ Foreignor) [Hawaiian]

9

What does everyone think of this, especially after the recent Supreme Court rulings?
My little opinion:
It is STUPID! Colleges should pick the best candidate for admission instead of just trying to appease minority lobbyist groups. Affirmative action proponents claim that this is a way to even out the income/standard of living gap between the minority groups and whites. The problem is that the poor white kid is left behind! There are, IMHO, two major reasons why minorities are not performing as well as whites/asians.

  1. Emphasis on Education
  2. Quality of Education
    Problem #1 will only be fixed if the minorities become more educated. Then they will realize the value of that education. People believe using problem #2 will help educate minorities. It will do just that, but at what cost? It will be at the cost of the poor white children who recieve the same poor K-12 education as the minorities and have equally uneducated parents. In order to address this problem properly we need to look at each person as a human being. We need to stop thinking in terms of black/hispanic/white/asian. How do we make sure that each PERSON recieves an equal oppurtunity? We have to make sure the inner city/poor/rural schools get the same quality education as the suburban ones. They all need equal funding in proportion to their number of students. This way the inner city and suburban kids will hold their futures in their own hands.
10

merged the thread sushi/nali :slight_smile:

11

thanks, kirupa. i didn’t see this thread.

12

I am split over the affirmative action program. I am going to use African Americans in most of the examples because I am more familiar with some of the issues surrounding them.

I am for it for the following reasons:

It gives many african americans, native americans, mexicans, and other historically/economically weaker ethnic groups a chance to enter into a world that would otherwise be denied to them. Many come from families where the highest level of education achieved may be a high school education. A college degree not only verses one in a profession but also exposes that individual to a whole new level of thinking and social interaction. Having economic freedom increases your chances of living better, fulfilling lives. After all, only when the basic necessities are met does one move away from thinking about oneself and toward thinking about the general welfare of others. AA provides a great opportunity for underpriviliged individuals to better their situations through an education, job preference, etc.

I am against it for the following reasons:

Like others have mentioned, there are numerous groups of individuals who are not included in aa. It would not be fair for an underpriviliged white individual to not be able to get into college just because of his/her ethnicity. Upuaut’s idea of deciding based on income is probably the best method.

In the long run, I doubt AA will benefit majority of the minorities like it is intended to. When majority of underprivileged minorities (esp. African Americans living in the inner cities) come from broken families filled with domestic violence and alcohol/drug abuse, an education or a job is probably the last thing on their minds. Kids are a good representation of their parents. When their parents or single parent is negligent and careless in their behavior, the children will begin to accept such behavior as normal. No amount of teachers or federal aid or preference in selection/hiring will help in changing such destructive behaviors. The environment affects how an individual develops through life.

The minorities who work hard will be able to get in to a college of their choice without having to rely on AA. Majority of the colleges in the US are fairly easy to get into, and even minimum educational requirement will grant you admission. Depending on your income level, scholarship or funding requirements will be determined. This will hopefully ensure that income level instead of ethnicity will be used instead.

Programs such as this only do one thing in my opinion: they give the notion that race can be used as an excuse for underperformance. The last thing we need is another excuse for lax performance. I agree that racial backgrounds play a role, but all races at one time or another have suffered at the hands of another race. In early America, many immigrant families from Europe had to struggle, but through hard work and determination they survived. If AA had existed back then, European immigrants would still be working in underground textile mills for minimal pay.

Cheers!
Kirupa :wink: