I did, nice bit of history. I don’t like that African Americans started talking about wanting Reparations. I treat and view them as equals, but it’s ridiculous that we owe them anything! Let’s give the Hohokam Indians the White House while we are at it!
True, so very true, lets petition!
well if any of you were african-americans then it’d make more sense.
Hrmm… I view all races eqaul, and I have friends of all races. But I don’t see how anyone should pay for what someones ancestors may or may not have had a part in. It isn’t like anyone went back in time and told them to do it.
Makes no sense to me :-\
I personaly doubt that this would make any more sense if I were an african american, displaced greatgrandchild of a slave.
I can say right now that I wont pay anything unless the bar is even across the board. ie, pay the indians for what we did to them, pay progeny of white slavery their due, etc. If you can create an even bar for all people, then I’ll pay into reparations, but until that time you’ll have to jail me if you want my cash.
I hate this issue. It’s impossible to win as a white man. “We don’t understand”… bull****, we understand the situation very clearly. WE are not responsible for anything other than being born to a family, the proponants of reparations want innocent people to pay for something because they were born of that color, or blood. That’s ****ED UP. That is at least as ****ed up as slavery itself is, and it’s possibly more ****ed up because someone who is sensitive to the freedom issue, should know better than to biggot themselves against people strictly because of skin color.
What about my family? My mother’s parents were first gen imigrant poles, a people who have been brutalized for thousands of years by every culture that came stomping through their land, and one which never was known as being particularly pro slave. My father’s heritage comes directly from a large family of people who worked tirelessly throughout the slave years to free african americans from bondage, and ship them up north where they might gain some protection.
…but in the end I’m a white man, and there are many proponants of reparations who would say that I should pay them for damages my race caused to them… That’s seriously deluded.
No this issue would make no more sense to me if I were Black. Perhaps if I were black and an idiot it might make sense, but that really is the only way. If you find that I’ve just insulted you, tough… I’m allowed to be insulting to idiots.
lol big man on campus…
My ancestry moved here from Germany but 2 (maybe 3) generations ago, and they did not own slaves.
oh but you’re German LIB?? You should probebly pay the Jewish people then…
hey it would make sense to you if you were Jewish. 
you kinda missed the point genius but i’m glad you wasted a page and a half of time :rambo:
Yeah, but I am also part American Indian… so… :-\
jadedchron… I’m not sure if you were trying to be funny or insulting, I’m going to assume ‘funny’ unless you state otherwise.
I guess I would simply like to ask you the question that this thread asks: ‘are you for, or against reparations, and why?’ Rather than assume that a white man can’t understand this issue, why not present an arguement and THEN judge if we understand the situation.
I agree with David. Just because we (I) are (am) white does not mean that we do not understand the situation. I do not believe that people are just a product of their environment. I believe that people can release themselves from their situation at anytime. I don’t feel that I should be held responsible for something that happened two hundred years ago to people who neither I, nor any of my relatives had any contact with. I am in the same boat as Lost, my relatives are fairly recent immigrants and lived in the North anyway, so we never owned slaves.
The older members of my family hold some prejudices because they lived in an era where that thinking was dominant, however I do not. I view every person as an equal individual. When I see three black guys hanging out at a bus-stop, I just see three guys hanging out at a bus stop. I don’t walk to the other side of the street. To be completely honest, I have never once been harmed by an individual ‘of color’ in my entire life. Whenever something bad has happened to me, the face behind the action was white. I would have to say that if I discriminate against anyone, it would have to be white people in general.
I come from a racist area, and when I was growing up it hurt me to hear people use any type of racial slur, because I thought that humanity was moving past that. However, I came to the realization that there will always be ignorance, there will always be people who think they are above others…
Just because I am white does not mean that I don’t understand. But truly, what would a reparation from our government actually mean? You get some money from the gov’t, and that is supposed to make 200 years of slavery, hardship, and oppression just go away? The government will not be able to fix the social inequalities present in society, just overnight. This will be an on-going process and I doubt that I will see it resolved in my lifetime.
I am not Jewish either, but Jews have been persecuted for much longer than the Africans were enslaved, so does that mean that every country that ever once held prejudice against Jews should pay every Jewish man, woman and child a reparation? You can’t say that its different because its not.
Yes African Americans deserve something. They deserve to live in a society that welcomes them. They deserve to be equal. They deserve to be able to climb the ladder and become rich and powerful. We live in a country where, in theory, everyone is equal; we just have to make everyone else see things this way too. I think that the only way to fix this, is to take all of the racist people, and ship them out. Because until racism and discrimination are abolished, there can be no equality.
Cheers,
Jubba
Also Phil: I have to represent the Native American Indians however because it is my field of study. That article says that in the 17th- century the White Indentured slaves came over, and “were America’s first slaves.”
Thats not entirely true. A more accurate statement would be “Britain’s first slaves in America” and even that is false to an extent.
While Native American Indians were not enslaved on a massive scale, they were enslaved. The numbers are somewhere in the 100,000s, and this began in the early 1500s with the Spanish and it started in Mexico. In the late 1500s the Spanish had expanded north into what is now New Mexico and began to set up missions to convert the Peublo people. The missions actually turned into an ‘indentured servitude.’
Also, on the subject of Indians and slavery, don’t forget that different Nations of Indians enslaved rival tribes. The Apache and Navajo often raided the Pueblo and took captives. In fact, one of the major factors of Native American war was the taking of captives, as either slaves, or as a revenge element (torture).
Another point I would like to argue: The amount of African slaves that were brought here, to the United states, is not even one-tenth of the amount that was brought into South America. And less that one-third the amount of people that were shipped to the Caribbean. Just an interesting point because I’m sure that the countries of South America and Latin America are not considering paying reparations to the decendents of those slaves. And thats a little unfair for the African Americans that live in the United States to get paid just because their ancestors just happened to be brought here instead of there.
Another point: What is with this whole African American thing? We are Americans. We were born in America. I’m not saying to forget our roots, but I don’t call myself a German American. My roommate does not call himself a Ukrainian American. Hell, even my friend whose parents immigrated from India calls himself American and he’s only the 1st generation born here. I’m only 3rd generation, and most African Americans around here have to be at least 6th or 7th generation decendants.
Ok sorry for the rant. I have to go to class now. I’m sure I’ll have more later.
Let us also not forget the African slave ship which crash landed on the beaches of the Gulf of Mexico in the 1400’s. Oh yeah… that was Africans enslaving their own kind so I suppose they shouldn’t have to pay their own people anything.
One thing you mention Jubba… shipping out all racists. I realize that you’re using sarcasm as a humor inducer, but just as I must support equal rights in America, so too must I support freedom of speach, and freedom of beliefs. Racists DO have a right to be here, just like everyone else. The rest of us have every right not to like them, but we can’t just ship them all off continent.
The answer is education, and it’s a slow tedious process. Unfortunately it’s the only process that is ethicaly correct. We the people, just need to keep driving the point home. Eventually the bigots will either jump ship themselves, or they will join the cause.
PS - I agree with what you said before about all injustices in your life have been perpetrated by white men. That is pretty much the case with me as well. There was one occation when I got punched in the nose by a rather large 10th grader (he towered over me by at least 4 inches, and I was 25) but in that case, I didn’t really blame him. One of my ‘friends’ had given him the middle finger.
Yes my sarcasm in that remark was the key. Education is the answer, however I believe that a certain amount of ignorance will always ring through. I’m off to chain myself to a desk in the library and Im not leavin until I understand CALCULUS!!
Peace!
Cheers,
Jubba:elderly:
you can be funny and insulting at the same time u know.
Ermmm… the people who would be insulted are racists. And racists can be insulting to many more people than a simple sarcastic quote about racists would be.
In my opinion of course.
*Originally posted by jadedchron *
**you can be funny and insulting at the same time u know. **
I failed to see any humor in your statement. David was merely stating his ideas. We (Phil, David, and myself) often get very longwinded when we type out our responses because we have many ideas and we like to include everything in our posts. This is the random section and you are free to talk about anything, and most of us use this section of Kirupa’s forums as a general discussion about anything. The topic in this thread happens to be slavery (started out as white slavery) and we are sharing our ideas. Comments and remarks such as yours really aren’t necessary if they don’t contribute to the discussion. No offense meant, just merely stating my opinion. There is no reason to be insulting to David just because he expressed his ideas in a particularly verbose manner, or just because he expressed his ideas at all. They are his ideas and he should be respected for them.
Back to topic: Yes David, education is the key to all of this, but as I said, it will be a long tedious process and I still feel that it won’t cure the ignorance that plagues our country. I also believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of expression and all of the other freedom that this country grants us. I do not agree with the actions of ignorant people.
My case: A guy (boy) I work with drives a pick-up truck. This summer he had the Confederate Flag painted on the hood. I see that flag as a symbol of oppression and hatred. He saw it as a sign of rebellion. That was his interpretation of its meaning. But there is so much more to that flag than just rebellion and he had and still does not have any idea of the power that its symbolism carries. He also harbors some very sick racist ideas. Oh, well… to misquote: “Ignorance is bliss…”
cheers,
jubs
yeah it’s a talk section and i figure if someone is going to be smart they should probably condense it into 2 sentences instead of 80
Whats the difference if they convey their thoughts in 5 lines or 105 lines? If it is too much for you then don’t read it. I actually like reading David’s posts. Personally I find him to be a very intelligent individual with many good ideas and a firm base in reality. Unlike many people in this world (especially those people who live in my hometown) his head is not in the clouds or up his ass.
