I could agree to that.
about the rats… how much SHS/lb of rat? was this like that saccarin study a few years back, where a human would have had to drink 20 cans of diet soda a day for 3 years to get the same amount, kinda thing?
Rev
for sure. The toobs I saw had one rat for about 15 cigarettes. However they only were introduced to the toob once per day. This is not the same as having 15 cigs a day however, as you and I well know. I just wanted to state that so that someone wouldn’t start a useless tangent. I’ll agree also that that test is skewed for that reason, as well as the biological difference issue.
As a side note, my mother left the research. The day in day out blatent torcher of animals was too much for her to take after 10 years. Often she would come home crying from the experience… I suppose 10 years is a tribute to her passion over the subject. For those thinking of doing this type of research however I want them to know that it is not enjoyable work if you have any compassion for animals.
Hey, I guess it comes down to what you believe. What expert you want to listen to. I however know that when I am in a room where others are smoking that my eyes turn red and itch and I get a cough. Are these things I would have developed in a room without smoke? Proably not. Are they warning sings from your body that something is not right? I think so. I guess any study can say that whatever happened to the SHS recipient could have come from anything. So without a 20+ year study of someone in a completely controlled environment could leave speculation for any study to say problems from the test group were caused by other things.
I am with upuaut though, to say smoke is only dangerous comig out the filtered end because it is hot is a bit of a stretch. What about if you smoke in the desert? The SHS could be over 100 degrees 
like I said.
you will pick a stance and stick to it, because you don’t think logically.
you have your mind made up, and so you will always think this way.
narrow mindedness does not gain support.
“what you believe” indeed.
Tyranny, control of others. That is all that comes out of you. No wonder you don’t like posting in any other forum. They would prob kick you out, because you don’t accept any other point of view, but your own.
again, why are you here? it’s not to learn. It’s not to discuss in an intelligent way, since you won’t listen to another point of view. It is not because you want to increase your cultural exposure, since your culture is right…
nice argument there Lizzie. I don’t agree, because I don’t believe the facts shown.
Rev
*Originally posted by reverendflash *
**like I said.
you will pick a stance and stick to it, because you don’t think logically.
you have your mind made up, and so you will always think this way.
narrow mindedness does not gain support.
“what you believe” indeed.
Tyranny, control of others. That is all that comes out of you. No wonder you don’t like posting in any other forum. They would prob kick you out, because you don’t accept any other point of view, but your own.
again, why are you here? it’s not to learn. It’s not to discuss in an intelligent way, since you won’t listen to another point of view. It is not because you want to increase your cultural exposure, since your culture is right…
nice argument there Lizzie. I don’t agree, because I don’t believe the facts shown.
Rev **
Look in the mirror Rev…When have you “changed opinions”
I have admitted when my conclusions are wrong. Have you?
Besides, this statement wasn’t about me, it was about you. You notice how you always turn around the statements?
Instead of showing how the statement is wrong, you simply say, well, you are worse.
That doesn’t show anything but sandlot debating skills.
Again, why are you here? What benefit are you to the whole Kirupaforum community? You don’t listen to other’s views, you only spout your rhetoric, and pick out minuae to argue about.
I really think you just like to argue, and other boards won’t let you just pick a topic and argue senslessly about it, because they won’t tolerate it. We are too nice here.
Freaking loser.
Rev
*Originally posted by reverendflash *
**I have admitted when my conclusions are wrong. Have you?
Besides, this statement wasn’t about me, it was about you. You notice how you always turn around the statements?
Instead of showing how the statement is wrong, you simply say, well, you are worse.
That doesn’t show anything but sandlot debating skills.
Again, why are you here? What benefit are you to the whole Kirupaforum community? You don’t listen to other’s views, you only spout your rhetoric, and pick out minuae to argue about.
I really think you just like to argue, and other boards won’t let you just pick a topic and argue senslessly about it, because they won’t tolerate it. We are too nice here.
Freaking loser.
Rev **
I thought you were putting me on your ignor list? I am not hurting you. I am mear second hand smoke which is proven to hot hurt anything 
I am positively THRILLED that I can go out to eat or have a drink and not be assaulted with everyone’s cigarette smoke. YUCK.
I’ll be THRILLED when I can go out and not be assaulted with everyone’s car smoke. YUCK
eki ~ point well taken. Car exhaust is offensive to me and about every other person I associate with. I’ll be a much happier person when we are given the same consideration as none smokers. (oh and there is a definitive study, completed and approved which shows auto exhaust to be harmful to the human body. 
)
ANyone seen Phillip Morris’s views on SHS? http://www.philipmorrisusa.com/health_issues/secondhand_smoke.asp
irrelivant.
a) one cannot trust a bunch of liars which PM have proven themselves to be over the years.
b) they are being forced by federal mandate to include certain things in their web site.
PM is the last place to go for any information on smoking and smoke related ilness.
Though I do think that it is funny that PM would be debating against Rev on the issue. lol
I just wanted everyone to know what PM has on their site…I too thought it was funny that they are on my side of the issue. However, if the WHO is right with thier study, I think PM has the money and power to run with it. I think it is curious that they do not.
I think Phillip Morris (sp?) also pays for a lot of the anti-smoking ads on TV
