Atheism

talk
161

no. Rarely does a 16 year old have the chance to go through the rigorous trials of life. Experience is the ultimate teacher, and it seems to me that you and st.dorthea have not had enough of it.

It is wonderful that you can formulate your ideas and you know what you believe, but you openly admitted to wanted to change our minds about things. Rev and Upuat are older men of great intelligence, and I hold them both in high respect. They both have had many challenges and lived through many trials. They have had a long time to formulate their ideas as well. Their minds will not be changed. Nor will mine. I may only be 21 years old, but I have lived thru much more than many people 2 or 3 times my age. I have experienced things that few others have and these things have changed my life in drastic ways. I have thought long and hard about my beliefs and nothing you say, no link to some trivial website will ever change my beliefs.

and attempting to change my beliefs and try to recruit me is something that I do not tolerate. [size=1]Thats why there are not more Jahova’s witnesses in my town anymore… **I ate them…[/size]

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Fester:

Congrats, it’s been 1 week and 1 day since you smoked. :thumb:

I don’t think we’re exactly kicking you out though Dorothea. You’re just not at the right place to discuss this matter especially with your intentions and tone of voice.

=)

163

dorothea:

it isn’t arrogance of me to say you haven’t found out who you are yet. There is no way possible, at the ripe old age of 16, you can possibly be aware of who you are (it will change so many times in the next few years)…

You haven’t even spent 1/4 of the estimated time available on this planet, and you have it all figured out. Of course this is still going on the Blind Faith method of learning, so I guess I see your point of view, no matter how limited it is.

Go, be well, etc. Please do not try to change my (or anyone else here for that matter) mind on any matter other than what the forum was designed. The audacity of people like you is what got me to look at the world, and seek truth. Not traditions based in controlling others, but actual scientifically proven facts.

I have studied theology in great length, and am an ordained minister. I doubt anything you can possibly say to me has not already been tried, and shot down.

My suggestion, should you wish to be able to post in this forum without predjudice, is to stop this nonsense, and ask a mod to change your screen name. No one will know it is you, and you can start over again, without the stigma of being a religeous zealot. Friendly advice is all. Prob wasted tho.

Rev

164

quote:

Originally posted by upuaut
I look forward to the day when we educate your kind out of existance Dorothea.

Well I didn’t expect this. I knew I was being a jerk before and I’m sorry. But I did try not to be so arrogant on this last post. Am I still sounding arrogant or do you just not like me ?

both dear both, but it’s ok. You don’t have any other choice in how to be because your God doesn’t give you that choice. I wrote the above statement because anything else that I could write would be infinitely more insulting to you and your faith, which, since you are young and still learning, I really have no desire to do. Do not take the statement to mean anything more than it states. I look forward to a time when the education of the people makes religions like yours obsolete.
The statement is also a closer for me on this convo. You really don’t want to be talking with me anyway. I’m a Luciferian my dear, and certainly an enemy of your faith. So, rather than cause you to leave, I’m just choosing to leave this conversation in the hand of my friends and peers here. They seem to be doing an ok job by my reasoning.

I wish you good luck wtih your faith. I hope that you are not disapointed by what you find in the Universe, and I hope that your Church can surpass the bloody carnage that so many Christian groups are responsible for.

Sacre Cuer~
“Bless us father for we have sinned.”

165

Upuaut:

I’m a Luciferian my dear

Hehe, you’re the first I know of. :thumb:

Rev:

ask a mod to change your screen name. No one will know it is you, and you can start over again, without the stigma of being a religeous zealot.

Ick, why can’t life be like that? :stuck_out_tongue:

=)

166 
quote:I'm a Luciferian my dear

Hehe, you’re the first I know of

dont get the wrong idea Max. I just use the title out of convienience. I do not worship anything, just to clarify that I am not a Satanist.

167

*Originally posted by Maxtr0sity *
**
Ick, why can’t life be like that? :stuck_out_tongue:

=) **

It can be… my father does not share my last name… neither did my mother when she was alive… and they were my biological parents… abzoid is the only one in my fam that has my last name still…

Rev

168

**
You all asked for proof. There is no true proof. There is almost no way to test for proof. Even when there is experiments done, many scientists create theories excluding the existence of a divine power. What I have been trying to show you is that you must use your judgement and common sense to realize what is the truth. The statistics show a lot but there have also been thousands of miracles to show the God exists. Do you think that every vision of a heavenly being was a halluncination? That every stigmata was a fake one? That every crying statue was made by men? That when people are somehow healed when informed that they will not survive and still do, it is the nature of the disease? How can I give you concrete proof? In reality there is no concrete proof for anything. I could give an excuse for any fact even if it sounded ridiculous, and then say that there is no proof. Science uses numerous experiments to prove or find something. There have also been numerous miracles to prove the extistence of God. While those miracles could alllies, some of those experiements could all be errors. However both of these events are unlikely. It is unlikely for scientists to make an error in an experiment numerous times but also unlikely for people to have gone through and reported miracles numerous times that were all false.

If your implying that maybe the uneducated peoples in Third World Countries have no explanation for their healing other than god, then maybe your right. But United States, with its great technology, is still the home of many Christians.

Again there is no way to just prove something, whether it be religion or any other fact. Science shows that the world is round, well I could choose not to believe that and say that magic makes people go to the opposite side of the world when they go to the edge. And that whenever people look at the Earth from space, and it appears round, they are seeing an illusion because the darkness in space makes everything look weird. For anyone to actually believe something like this would be ridiculous. Yet there is no way to prove something, you believe what you want to believe. But humans do use wise judgement to determine what they believe is true. After so much evidence of the Earth having a round shape, I would be using wise judgement to think that it is round. After so many miracles happening, I would be using wise judgement to think that they did occur.

Again you can believe what you want to believe. No one can prove to you that God exists. And if I wanted to believe that the Earth is flat, then I could, and no one could prove it to me otherwise. I choose what I want to believe, but I choose what is in my best judgement. I want you to think that maybe believing in the nonexistence of God is not in your best judgement. **

wow you just lost any shred of credability you had. good going. Thank you for showing us that you dont have a clue as to what you’re even fighting about!. i HAVE read the bible 3 times and trust me i do “get it”. you are throwing up information that David and I have heard way too many times over the past 3 years of arguing with people like you. Everytime we have a discussion like this there is always that defining moment where we all realise that this discussion with you is as pointless as arguing with a parrot. YOU DO NOT THINK FOR YOURSELF!, YOU HAVE NO REASONING SKILLS, YOU ARE A PUPPET, YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO. The iorny is that no one can can change you because your ego wont let you, because it is YOU who is afraid of the truth. I will not waste my time DEBUNKING EVERY “PROOF” YOU HAVE! Its sad that you preach about “truth” when you’re obviously not interested in it (hint: your religion makes it against the rules to seek out the truth) . Be happy and live in your blissfuly ignorant world. Maybe one day you will be serious about things and not waste our time with arguments that my 10 year old sister could see through. oh and have a nice day :slight_smile:

169

*Originally posted by upuaut *
**Provide your proofs. I’m up for that challenge. **

try this one http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/rtb/8rsn/

170

again, no proof.

This list you linked to assumes the Bible is non-fiction, and is a fact…

circular reasoning will get no fans here…

Rev

171

[size=1][sarcasm][/size]actually I quite like circular reasoning…[size=1][/sarcasm][/size]

allow me to quote a book that is quickly becoming my favorite…

“I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”

“But,” says Man, “the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own argument, you don’t. QED.”

“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

172

Ha!

Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy strikes again…

:beam:

Rev

173

Okay, I was avoiding this thread for a while… but I just got to say something…

I beleive in god, I beleive the bible is not the word god, I beleive that a good diet wont let you in to heaven and I beleive everyone should beleive whatever they want too…

To alot of people, releigeon is a source of hope, its tradition, it culuture its who they are, it is what form their society. Truth or not, without it they would be empty. It is also something deeper and of spiritual connection, and to some its just the hope that there is GOT to be something higher than humans…

But anyway… I dont beleive in anyway that an athiest is a friggin devil, a sinner or whatever…
Athiest are just athiest… you could believe, or have the abscence too…
I also beleive that we should not try to prove the releigeon is right, or convert athiest. Thats just pointless… there are much greater factors that we should worry about…

The catholic church, with all its power and wealth can apply it to some other things to help save people lives instead of just trying to battle this…

Lets say for the hell of it, there is a heaven and hell (humor me)
I beleive, just because one is a Catholic or devount Christian dosent mean he will go to heaven… its a matter of what he did during his life…

I also beleive, as a beleiver in God, that athiest if they respect their fellow man, and live well. They too will be saved… (remember your still humoring me)

I mean, isnt Jesus is the one who forgives, and cant he forgive such a thing. Its not like they are murderers, baby killers or whatever… Its how they where brought up in the society. In this world. Even Jesus said: Dont make an idol out of me…

I dont think people should be tried to convinced to give up God either…

Soul, spirit and beleif is quite a powerfull thing… I dont ever underestimate it…

174

http://www.it-is-truth.org/it-is-truth/Index.shtml

175

Dear Seeker of Truth,

No one is compelled to accept the truth, but it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when a man is not even interested in finding out what the truth is!

Islam teaches that our Creator has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves to ponder, to question and to reflect.

Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of the teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose. Even when a person is faced with the truth, there is no compulsion upon him to embrace it.

But before you begin to form an opinion about Islam, ask yourself whether your existing knowledge about it is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have probably been exposed to only random glimpses of Islamic writings and have yet to reason out on Islam objectively and systematically themselves.

Is it fair enough that one should form an opinion about the taste of a particular dish just by a mere hearsay from others who may themselves have not necessarily tasted the dish yet?

Similarly you should find out for yourself about Islam from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach to the truth.

In making your next move to the truth, Islam continually reassures you that your rights to freedom of choice and freedom to use that God-given faculty of thought and reason will be respected, for everyone has that individual will. No one else can take away that will and force you to submit to the true way of your Creator, you have to find out and make that decision yourself!

May your intellectual journey towards the truth be a pleasant and fruitful one.

176

cybergold: Should you happen to wander into this thread again, I have a few questions to ask you.

  1. Do you profess Islamic faith? (probably a stupid question)

  2. I am interested in learning more about Islam. What would be the best source?

177

Jubba, I profess islam and that there is no god but God and Muhammad is His final messenger.

It is good to see that you are interested in learning more about Islam. The first, Best sources to learning about Islam is #1, The Holy Quran and #2, the life, sayings and teachings of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) These are the First and best sources you will ever find because these are the foundations of Islam.

The link i gave above is a good start for those just learning about Islam and its beliefs. Here is another link I hope will be of help to you.

You can read the Qoran online and its meaning here and [URL=http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/quran/]here

I hope that i have answered your questions informatively, accurately and helpfully as possible.

178

Sorry Took so Long
quote:

Originally posted by upuaut
Provide your proofs. I’m up for that challenge.

try this one http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/rtb/8rsn/

As was mentioned, these articles make the assumption that the bible is fact in order to “prove” the validity of the bible. If you don’t understand why that is moronic at best, then you have no business discussing things in the ordered section.

For anyone else who wishes to challenge me a proof is exactly this. A theory, for which there is an experiment, which may produce a false result, but which does not, under the speculation of independent parties. If you can’t do that, then there is no proof. If you don’t understand why that is a proof, just ask and I’ll try to explain it to you. If you want to use unverifiable documents as a kind of “proof” then at the very least you will need multiple documents from different sources, which state the same thing.

Please do not waste my time.

179

Isn’t Eyewitness accounts proof enough? of course there isn’t going to be “photo’s” from the era of Christ, without photo’s today when you die, what will be the proof YOU existed, birth records, and writings about you, and eye witness accounts… hmmmm. even a picture of you couldn’t prove it was you without the eyewitness accounts professing to be you.

180

Why does everyone want to prove God’s existance… let it be a faith and a beleif and just leave it at that…