lol JESUS!,
Why are you guys ranting each other, i thought kirupa was a happyland…
anyways CSS sucks and so does FLASH…Its all about the HTML!
JK:lol: but really is not about the frickin code or program its about the design and skill the artist has in the firstplace. dont care wich one is better
just the better design wins for me!!!
:kommie: happy in K-land:kommie:
thanks lunatic 
Now on the topic of this thread…imo making a comparison between css and flash is like comparing dressing with a steak. No point in doing that and each of them has a different purpose. This could go on forever, everybody has their own preferences. So please try to keep this thread in a constructive and ellegant manner.
I agree. I am interested in exploring the CSS side of web design, because I’m fairly new to it. Instead of choosing one or the other, why not enhance your skill at both
Also, you’re right lunatic. Ditt0’s new CSS site is stylish.
Whao, I agree too. Nice site, Ditt0!
The internet was never ment for flash…
Ok. Yes, as I’ve said many a time, Flash does have a place on the internet. However, as many have said, it’s overused and usually not the best medium for the job.
Somebody (I think it was Tim) stated that Kirupa.com was a great use of Flash. I disagree: I think that small jobs that don’t improve the site to a great degree (e.g. the site header) would be better made in css, as they would be simple, and greatly improve the accessibility of the site (how is Google supposed to follow this links?).
Nevertheless, on sites primarily focused on presenting zero (or so little it’s insignificant) information, and rather wowing their audience, then Flash is a great tool. Several sites on May 1st Reboot, for example, are just made to amaze potential clients, and simply have a contact form. I feel this is a good use of Flash, although generally the sites they build are not.
[whisper]Why do I even argue this on a Flash forum! 
I guess because I was challenged, but still…[/whisper]
Flash is just the paint on the Ferrari. It will never replace the engine, wheels, etc…
The reason the site’s headers/footers are done in Flash is that it allows users to create custom styles based on them. While you may not mind hacking HTML/CSS for the header, it’s a lot easier for 99% of the stylers to simply open an FLA and change the fill color 
The strangest things I noticed in this thread were comments relating to the ‘purpose’ of the internet. I don’t think that there has to be a specific purpose to the internet, and if there was, I see no reason why it couldn’t change.
Yep.
The internet was never ment for flash…
I cannot even begin to go into detail about how incorrect that statement is, because there isn’t enough time or room on the page.
And that’s perfectly reasonable. I find that one advantage of CSS is its ease of use. However, if Flash is far easier to manage, then that advantage may make it better than CSS. 
yea whaddaya mean The internet was never ment for flash… thats ridiculous…then lets take that one step further - The internet was never ment for Quicktime, The internet was never ment for Streaming media, The internet was never ment for Images, The internet was never ment for colour and fonts…
Hell why not make all wep page ‘standards compliant’ - lets make the ‘standard’ White 10pt Courier on black backgrounds - so every concietious designer from now on can pat himself on the back because his disgusting boring site is standards compliant.
And yes, one of flash’s shortcomings is its text isnt searchable by search engines, and true, its not yet easily portable to mobiles etc - but these are things that will change…
i envisage that projects like OpenLazslo, UIRA, Ktoon etc will start to take ‘flash’ to new heights, to create a more open ended vector animation/interaction format with more of the properties of html, and less of the issues of flash in its current state.
web sites are only going to get more media rich as time progresses - people in 20 years will not be happy with a standards compliant css only site…people want aesthitics, and the elements of motion, sound and interactivity are good tools to give it to them…
Hey… if this is a thread about me fighting you… that’s not from me. 
:lol:
While I have to agree with mathew on some things… I have my own outlandish opinion on web design. In my opinion, and keep in mind, this is just me, you have to attain a balance between simplicity and effects. It has to be easily navigatable, yet, interesting. You also need to have perspective, and draw in the eyes too the focal point of the art via lines, shading, etc. All you art people should know what I’m talking about. (ditto, please dont be offended, but I’m going to use your site as in example. The first thing my eyes are drawn too is that hand and where is it pointing. Prime example of focal points. They can be more or less obvious.)
Simple = good. CSS offers simplicity, while flash offers more creativity and interactiveness. I feel most disigners fail to bridge this gap between simplicity, and go over the top to make a less functional site. Additionally, because of the whole CSS you can layers and position exactly, you can create some VERY creative layouts. I’d show you some but I dont have time and I’m out of practice.
While I’m ranting about focal points, lets breifly touch on other areas of art. Shadows are good, but can distract. Shading is very good, and can be used a subtle path to a focal point. COLOR SCHEMES. Some people are really quite bad at color schemes. Additionally, music can add of take away the effect of a page. I’m a musician, so that’s something that a big pet peev, bad music choice.
So really what I’m getting at is this… is one better than the other? No. It all depends upon the designer at hand. Also, if you haven’t looked at an art book yet, do it.
well, i would hope that in 20 years time the web would evolve. in fact, i’m 100% sure that in 20 years neither flash or css will be in use.
I hope I will still be employed. :lol:
[whisper]Did anybody notice that Matthew didn’t even get a warning for creating such a flaming thread? Seriously… if I had created something like… “Matthew - Fight Me > [noparse]:([/noparse]” about how Flash sucks, I would’ve been [uber]-warned![/whisper]
Actually I believe he was warned (just not publicly)…But I took it as something funny at first (judging by the title), but I guess if you took offense we can make the warning a lil more stern.
Matthew - consider this a warning, any more of this monkey business and you will be sent to your room with no dinner, young man.
Hows that Nokrev :lol:
And I am starting to think this thread should be locked. I am going to bed. If I wake up and all is not well and harmonious in this thread it is history.
the “Fight me” was 100% a joke…it was mainly to get his attention
sorry if this is too flame-like :sigh:
But hey i didnt say css sucks at all…css is very useful - but its nuts and bolts, tech stuff…us nerds may get a kick out of it if our sites are compliant, but users dont care.
all i was saying was flash has some very good uses, and css has some very good uses, but i dont like some css lovers who get a vendetta against flash - when it really is a powerful in its own right…
well, i would hope that in 20 years time the web would evolve. in fact, i’m 100% sure that in 20 years neither flash or css will be in use.
for sure - and i bet it will be more like flash (moving, interactive, media rich) without the problems flash currently has … and *nothing *like css stuff we see today.
Well I guess matthew just wanted to tell one line but out of emotional waves told many things…
I agree with him dont blame flash for bad designs it’s the developers… And dont blame CSS too for some bad designs…Both are tools capable of doing and producing great things depending on the requirements…
But when I hear somebody say that I close flash sites because I 99% time see preloader… What??? Evolve man… And it’s not flash who is putting that preloader there in first frame… It’s developers… Flash doesnt need to load everything at once if you want to make it different way…
I dont like ppl bashing flash only because designers did bad…
CSS sites are beauty I like some of them so much… I am so interested learning it too…
I know ppl fight over Java/.net thingie like the same 
There is nothing to fight. Blame tool only if it’s a real limit of tool and not the developer/designer)
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