Anyhoo - what do you all think? Should the ban be allowed to expire? Bring the ban back in?
My opinion:
I don’t hunt, never owned a gun, and I don’t really plan on owning a gun…[size=1](that’s what my sub-contracted, recently outsourced personal assassins are for!)[/size] With that said, I don’t see the need for a normal, American civilian to have to have a semi-automatic assault rifle in their possession.
If they do want to have a semi-automatic rifle, I wouldn’t mind supporting another law that would limit the number of bullets that can be carried per clip/magazine for civilians.
I personally think its ok. I would be afraid of a guy with a paintball gun, so it doesn’t matter if I’m being threatened by a handgun or a semi-automatic.
I don’t think it is off topic.
I am a gun person, but I am NOT into killing ANYTHING. I LOVE weapons, they fascinate me and I LOVE guns, especially world war II era small arms. I own a sportorized japaneese arisaka which I reload my own ammunition for. I shoot for the sport of shooting and enjoy all aspects of firearms. I do however believe in tighter gun regulations, but I do not believe in limiting the type of weapons one can own.
You can buy a black powder derringer and assasante a leader, or rob a store, with no BG check or liscense, anywhere in the US. “Assault Weapon” is a term gun hatters came up with, we call them Class 3 type weapons
Yeah, Its true, getting shot by a rifle or a pistol sucks either way. But I think alot of the police officers are worried because the higher caliber rifles vs. kevlar and what happends when they get in to the hands of gangs and whatnot. Because if someone buys a AR legaly, he can sell it the criminals easily and whatnot.
My stance on gun control? I understand the need for it, recreational and protection. But I dont think everyone should be able to buy one. I think it should be more like getting your licence, you should prove that you are capable of being responsible for it, have it registered and a whole bunch of measures… and if you can do that… knock yourself out! And the bigger gun you want, the more proof you need that you are responsible, and if you can do it! Have fun.
Hey RB!
I like your take on the topic, regulations = responsible gun owners.
But the size and caliber of the weapon does not classify it as an assault type weapon. It is actually several physical features of the weapon, such as a pistol grip with a detachable magazine. Details: http://www.fact-index.com/a/as/assault_weapons_ban__usa_.html
And many assault type weapons (such as the AR-15) actually fire SMALL caliber rounds, like the popular .223 or 5.56 x 45mm for you europeans. These small caliber rounds can actually be made armour piercing with an incendiary composition and detonating tip.
Personally I would just love to get me one of those MP5’s like in my avatar, 9mm parra, 500 - 900 rounds per minute and made in Germany :drool:
Hmm… I hadn’t thought about criminals versus police. That’s a good point.
[ot]
I personally have always been more into swords and the like. It’s not as though I want to kill anyone with them, but they’re elegant (if used & designed properly) and functional; not to mention very stylish.
Unfortunately, my mom won’t let my buy any swords (not even models) for me to play around with. Oddly enough, she doesn’t seem to mind that I was trained to use nunchucks and staffs…
[/ot]
what happends when they get in to the hands of gangs and whatnot.
Sadly RB you don’t have to worry about that. Gangs and criminals have always been able to get just about any kind of small arms they want, and most of them are not stupid enough to use them against the police since that LA bank robbery (all LA police carry an automatic AR-15 or M-16 in their car since). Drug cartels and the like have been supplying hardcore weapons for years to gang members. Criminals do steal many weapons though from private owners, but like I said before a .45 pistol is just as dangerous as a .45 semi tommy gun. When I was younger and hanging out w/ the “wrong crowd” I could have gotten just about any gun out there, if I asked around and had the money. Whether they are legal or not the criminals will have them, fortunatlly they use them against each other 99% of the time.
.45 pistol is just as dangerous as a .45 semi tommy gun
I’d have to disagree on that fact, the muzzle velocity and the rounds/minute of a tommy makes kind a more dangerous! lol, But I think i know what you mean.
Sadly RB you don’t have to worry about that. Gangs and criminals have always been able to get just about any kind of small arms they want
Right, thats true, but thats alot of opposition the the AR ban does come from cops and polic officers, and Im guessing they are afraid there will be even more big guns and what not on the street.
Right, thats true, but thats alot of opposition the the AR ban does come from cops and polic officers, and Im guessing they are afraid there will be even more big guns and what not on the street.
I completley agree, but I still think it is a violation of the rights of responsible Americans to limit the types of firearms we can own, by law. I believe there should be special classes and licenses that must be held, as well as saftey and security systems that must be purchased with the weapon. Right now in California the gun laws are already strengent, such as I HAD to buy a lock when I picked up my latest .22, no biggie I was gonna get one anyways, but you can buy a chineese flame thrower ( http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6057505 ) without any restrictions.
I’d have to disagree on that fact, the muzzle velocity and the rounds/minute of a tommy makes kind a more dangerous! lol, But I think i know what you mean.
Sorry but I have to clear this up. A thompson m1a1 semi-automatic still fires a 45ACP cartridge. the same as any standard 45 pistol. The longer barrel (268mm) does give it a more effective range (50M), but still falls far short of the 90M+ range of the M-16. This is only because it uses a pistol cartridge. Muzzle velocity is 920fps (or 280mps) and the muzzle velocity of a M1911 standard pistol is 830FPS (or 253mps), which is not a huge difference and where as the M-16 can have a muzzle velocity of 3K+fps (granted the bullet is much smaller but the Torque is still trmendous because of speed and will tear the hide right off your butt).
I think people are afraid of assault riffles because they are used in war. I own a gun that was the “assault rifle” of it’s time, but is just a relic now. In comparrison my Type 99 uses a 7.7 x 58mm round and is effective to ranges of 1,000 yards. It was even originally fitted with an anti-aircraft site, and it has very little restrictions.
I think the only thing that matters is keeping them semi-automatic and magazine capacities between 10 and 15 rounds - supported by gun saftey protocols for different classes of rifle or pistol - thats gun control, implementing LAWS to RESTRICT our 2nd ammendment RIGHT to “not infringe” on us “keeping” and “bareing” our weapons is the first step towards government oprression. As a wise man once said, “Fear the government
that fears you”.
I think people are afraid of assault riffles because they are used in war. I own a gun that was the “assault rifle” of it’s time, but is just a relic now. In comparrison my Type 99 uses a 7.7 x 58mm round and is effective to ranges of 1,000 yards. It was even originally fitted with an anti-aircraft site, and it has very little restrictions.
I think the only thing that matters is keeping them semi-automatic and magazine capacities between 10 and 15 rounds - supported by gun saftey protocols for different classes of rifle or pistol - thats gun control, implementing LAWS to RESTRICT our 2nd ammendment RIGHT to “not infringe” on us “keeping” and “bareing” our weapons is the first step towards government oprression. As a wise man once said, “Fear the government
that fears you”.
Okay lets PLEASE not get in the 2nd ammendment argument, we can argue it all night on what the fore-fathers intended.
Sorry but I have to clear this up. A thompson m1a1 semi-automatic still fires a 45ACP cartridge. the same as any standard 45 pistol. The longer barrel (268mm) does give it a more effective range (50M), but still falls far short of the 90M+ range of the M-16. This is only because it uses a pistol cartridge. Muzzle velocity is 920fps (or 280mps) and the muzzle velocity of a M1911 standard pistol is 830FPS
Right, but again, how many rounds can you spray out of a Tommy, esepecialy with a drum clip, compared to lets say a 1911?
Right, but again, how many rounds can you spray out of a Tommy, esepecialy with a drum clip, compared to lets say a 1911?
Ok I am and have been refering to semi-auto, not full auto. The largest capacity drum mag for a tommy is 50 rounds (as far as I have seen) and the largest capacity mag for a 1911 style pistol, once again as far as I have seen, is 25 rounds.One could argue that a tommy is more cumbersome than a pistol giving the user of the pistol better movement, and changing mags is much faster with drop free. Plus one could carry a pistol in each hand giving him that 50 round capability and two guns. But now I am rambling…
Back to the point, if it was me in a combat situation I would take the 1911 style weapon, simply for freedom of movement. But yes, the tommy does provide a larger capacity allowing for twice as many misses and even I think I am sounding like I am arguing for the sake of seeing myself type, so I will gracefully bow to your point
Okay lets PLEASE not get in the 2nd ammendment argument, we can argue it all night on what the fore-fathers intended.
Oh come on what better topic than this to argue the 2nd ammendment? :kommie:
But then again it is all about interpretation. :sigh:
I think I am sounding like I am arguing for the sake of seeing myself type, so I will gracefully bow to your point
LOL, hahahah…
Woah Billstar, thats great… its traditional that when the let you fire the AK-47, you turn around and fire on the people next to you… they will all have a good laugh if you do. :thumb:
[size=1]haha, thats awsome, do you know where you’re going?[/size]
I agree with you. I come from a hunting community (Wyoming) but who would hunt with an assult Riffle? those are designed to kill, and kill lots of people in a short period of time. They don’t belong to civilians, just another tool to create more violence. (Unless we’re being invaded by the british again… lol jk ) =)
Here is a little info on the Assault Weapons ban that may be of interest to you all and surprising as well. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040816-114754-1427r.htm .
It pretty much states that the weapons ban has done little to nothing to benifit the reduction of crime. So what is it about then?
Dr. Edgar Suter has a good examination on the subject(click me for ref)
He states:
The “assault weapons” deception
It is not just the American Medical Association, Handgun Control Inc. (HCI) and the media that have hysterically and grossly exaggerated the criminal use of semiautomatic guns. The Californian Attorney General’s Office conducted two statewide studies of the use of “assault weapons” in crime. Both the 1988 Helsey and the 1990 Johnson studies showed that such guns almost never used in crime, even in the major centers of drug violence. Criminals prefer concealable weapons, not big rifles and shotguns. The Attorney General office ignored and denied the existence of the studies until the studies were leaked to the press.
Of over two dozen published studies on “assault weapons”, only one flawed “study” done by two newspaper reporters, the Cox newspaper study, suggested, that even in the highest crime areas, semiautomatic guns are used in more than 0 to 3% of crimes. The Cox “study” is invalid because it was based on gun traces. The FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF), and the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress have all explained why gun traces cannot be used for statistical purpose - simple, because guns are chosen for tracing, such traces do not represent a true sampling of the kinds of guns used in crimes. The Cox “study” exaggerated the use of “assault weapons” in crime from 3 to over 100 times, depending on the definiton of “assault weapon” and the locale studied.
Almost all of these newly fearsome, expensive target rifles banned are functionally like guns designed over 100 years ago! The Los Angeles riots and other disasters show that these so called “assault weapons” are often the most appropriate weapons for self-protection by good citizens against mob and gang violence.
The ban had very little effect on real gun nuts, as there were already quite a good number of publicly-owned assault weapons in the United States. Hell, I own three guns that fall under such a classification. And while I understand the concern by members of the law enforcement community, the ban would not have been able to prevent the free exchange of domestically owned weapons among hobbyists.
The MP5, Bushmaster, AR15, Carbine, as well as a large number of other firearms were still largely available to the public during the ban.
If people wanted REAL gun control they had to, and will still have to, look elsewhere. The rigid regulation of magazines, bayonet mounts, folding/telescoping stocks, and flash suppressors wasn’t even worth noting back in '94 (although I think banning rifle-mounted grenade launchers was something).
Besides, when a gang of large, oppressed, revolutionary fauna come marching over the hillside while waving their red flag of Gaian discontent…what will you stop them with? A puny, .45? Puh-leeeeeze.
Talking as a Canadian, we are very worried about the ban being lifted. A vast majority (not sure of the exact precentage, but it is very high) of handguns used in crimes in Toronto have been smuggled across the border. While these assault riffles may be banned here, lifting the ban in the U.S. will result in the spread of them throughout our cities. Kind of like the U.S. argument against us legalizing marijuana, except in reverse, and except guns tend to kill more people than marijuana.
Here is the deal. All the things the ban outlawed had to do with new manufacuring. If you do a google search right now you can find hundreds of sites selling “pre ban” magazines and rifles that we manufactured before the ban. These things have been sold and traded for years since the ban. Go to any gun show in America (I was just at one in Austin last month) and you can buy any semi-auto rifle (pre and post ban) you want. There was one booth I was at that had a moutain of “high-capacity” magazines for just about anything. The ban stoped stupid things like muzzel flash suppresors (you know those cool looking things on the tip of riffle barrels that keeps the flash down), this stuff was banned because it made the gun look too mean… Also it band folding stocks. Because we all know a gun is more deadly without a stock in your armpit right?? Oh and I almost forgot, it cannot have a bayonet mount…this is because of all those drive by stabbings that have occurred from baynot charges in the inner city…
hahahah…
