Genetically Modified Crops

talk
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Hey everyone,
So…what are all of your thoughts on genetically modified crops? Seems like more than a few people around the world are opposed to it and in favor of it: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&ie=ascii&q=genetically+modified+crops

My views:

I’m all for it! If you are able to grow crops that are disease resistant and allow more efficient use of land due to less wasted crops, I don’t see what the major problem would be…besides somebody growing an extra limb or something. Frankly, until I see something credible that actually shows that the main GM crops that are being used (not talking about stuff that is proven to be harmful) is harmful to health, the benefits of it, in my view, far outweight the paranoia of a few extreme environmental groups :te:

I found a good URL that shows the good and bad side of this: http://www.umd.umich.edu/sep/students/jglimpse/jglimpse_scicontr.html

Cheers!
Kirupa :gm:

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I guess I don’t mind but no one of will know what the actual long term effects will be until…well, long term comes. :lol:

I know that most Canadians don’t know that they’re eating genetically modified food and I find that a little surprising.

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/me carves another notch among many others where we do not agree Kirupa… :slight_smile:

We’re tampering with something that will grow beyond our control (and genetically modified beef tastes bad). You can call me paranoid or whatever, I refuse to play with genes. We are not Gods. final. Nice URL btw.

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Half of the world is already starving, and if it wasnt for GMO’s the other half would be starving too.

I am all for it like Kirupa,

There is this wave of parenoia about growing three eyes and legs are completle unfounded in any truth! I dont understand how people can be against it. Why are we all for sience but against agricultural sience? Shouldn’t medical sience be just as contreversial? We mess with genes and other things for medicine, what makes it taboo when it comes to food!? When it comes to food why are we all of a sudden arguing without unfouded paranoia to go back in time?

With great acheivmens of people like Norman Borlaug who they estimate saved a [size=6]billion[/size] people! Name one other invention that can do that?

Its easy to be against it on a full stomach, in all respect, being against GMO’s is an extremly self-centered and selfish position, GMO’s arent for us, we can chose what food we eat, its for the people who starve everyday, its for the 29 000 children that die daily, not counting the adults. And what about the hundreds of millions of people that go to bed hungry every night? When other sientisits are busy developing weapons these sientist are busy trying to save people, and we protest them?

How can we ever talk of peace, or ending deseases when people go hungry? We will never end wars or violence as long as people die of stravation!

Because of this paranoia we have people dying everday!
Africa has 30 million people who are in danger of starving to death everyday, and yet corporations like Green Peace is pressuring Zimbaway to refuse GMO crops for fear it inffects their crops, WHAT CROPS ARE THERE TO INFECT IF PEOPLE ARE STARVING!???

Sorry for the rant, I dont mean to offend, but this topic gets me fired up.

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It gets you fired up, but you said some pretty good things there RB. I couldn’t agree more.

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Genetic crops huh. If they could some how engineer it to have more wheat or vegtibles to grow on one plant I’m all for it. Oh and resistant to bugs and diseases etc is great too.

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Name one other invention that can do that?

I’m guessing penicilin… but I could be wrong hey…

As for the sheer amount of GM crops, whilst I agree that it should be developped in subsaharian areas as a palliative, where people are starving , the only thing it actually does is boost Western economy and leaves the South way behind (cf. the WTO Doha Summit). Do you think that the overproduction of wheat in the States does any good to Mali or Congo or Somalia? It’s not how much one produces, it’s how much it comes into balance with the ones who need the production. Most overprods in the west will spoil, it won’t cure the greatest sickness of all: hunger… because, what’s the point of selling if you’re going to give it in the end…

Welcome to a world of capitalism, if it’s not worth it, let them starve.

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I’m guessing penicilin… but I could be wrong hey…

All the penicilin in the world wont save you if you have jack to eat…

As for the sheer amount of GM crops, whilst I agree that it should be developped in subsaharian areas as a palliative, where people are starving , the only thing it actually does is boost Western economy and leaves the South way behind (cf. the WTO Doha Summit). Do you think that the overproduction of wheat in the States does any good to Mali or Congo or Somalia? It’s not how much one produces, it’s how much it comes into balance with the ones who need the production. Most overprods in the west will spoil, it won’t cure the greatest sickness of all: hunger… because, what’s the point of selling if you’re going to give it in the end

Your moving away from the argument, your saying that supply is a major problem. Yes it is. But that dosent have jack to do with GM food.

Your also missing the point, if the efforts of ONE man, can help save a Billion people… that it was worth it already. Thanks to GMO’s we feed already hundreds if not billions of people.

We can argue politcs all night, but this thread is not about that. And just with Norman Bourlaugh, the GE crops have been worth it.

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All the penicilin in the world wont save you if you have jack to eat…

all the GM food in the world won’t save you if you need antibiotics… :slight_smile: (and I just named another invention that has cured hundred of millions of people… just like you asked)

Your also missing the point, if the efforts of ONE man, can help save a Billion people… that it was worth it already. Thanks to GMO’s we feed already hundreds if not billions of people.

GMOs have not saved that many people… GMOs COULD feed a whole lot of people, but GMOs DO NOT feed a whole lot of people more. In fact, we could produce as much food without having them being genetically modified. The fact is that crops are not distributed evenly, it’s just cheaper for the West. So what’s the point of using GMOs if they aren’t used the way the pro-GMOs say they are?
There’s an overproduction of crops all over the Western Hemisphere (actually, France has had a rise of 17% of crops this year, for example) but that still doesn’t feed all the hungry children in Africa…because they are going to be left to rot instead… So. GMO’s as a palliative until there’s a better solution for the hungry ones, but no GMOs just to have a higher production for less money (ie: I don’t like hyper-capitalism and I’m proud of it)

My thoughts on GMOs is that it’s as much a political and economical tool as a theoretical way to feed the needies (ie: a world-social tool).

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I’m all for it because as far as I’m conserened there are no downsides. I remember reading about this in Popular Science and I thought this is the single greatest idea we ever had!

The other thing is that GM crops can supposedly grow the protients and other bits needed to make medicines more abundant and cheaper. The idea is that certain types of veggies are grown with the protiens in large numbers, harvested, and have the bits extracted. They believe that it could reduce the price of most medicines and vaccines by upto 50%.

Again, I’m all for it![size=1][color=white].[/color][/size]

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yup, we could also breed a race of human beings with self-regenerescent grey cells, resistant to cancer and without traces of fat over the abdominal belt… does this mean we ought to do it? Messing with genes, be it vegetal or animal is wrong and it is going to pop in our face one day. Besides, having GM proteines injected in my bloodstream kinda gives me the creeps… :confused:

and I hate these ****ed left wing extremest fools.

lame…At least, have the guts to express your opinion publicly.

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changing the genes of humans so that we become super human is a far strech from modifying corn so that it repells bugs. Nature does this to (just, not often with corn). There is a constant battle between bugs and plants as they are constantly evolving 1) on the plant’s side: genes that repel the bugs and 2) bugs so that they can with stand the plant’s repellant. All we’re doing is giving corn a friendly little boost.

//it’s a pity however that you don’t think through everything and see past the “it’s not what we’re used to” - public enough for you ;)?

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changing the genes of humans so that we become super human is a far strech from modifying corn so that it repells bugs. Nature does this to (just, not often with corn). There is a constant battle between bugs and plants as they are constantly evolving 1) on the plant’s side: genes that repel the bugs and 2) bugs so that they can with stand the plant’s repellant. All we’re doing is giving corn a friendly little boost.

hu-hu. And why do we give the corn a “friendly little boost” if they can do fine on their own? What gives us the right to favor corns to bugs? And when the bugs evolve (way more rapidly) to keep up with their alter-ego corn, what tells you that we’re not destroying the ecosystem? Nature has a delicate balance, all we’re doing is tipping it to one side without balancing the other, and that is bound to mess the whole thing up.

I think through a lot more than you seem to think, maybe you could question yourself about this too… It’s not a matter of “it’s not what I’m used to”, it’s a matter of whether I find it dangerous or not. And I find it dangerous to the ecosystem, one heritage I’m less and less proud of passing on to my -yet to be- children.

public enough for you ;)?

way less insulting anyhow… (and thx for the edit)

Now, if you could tell me how messing the genes of corn is so far a stretch from modifying animal genes… please do so.

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GMOs have not saved that many people
Well, according to the the Nobel commity, they DID!

Two Words: **Norman Borlaug **

… GMOs COULD feed a whole lot of people, but GMOs DO NOT feed a whole lot of people more. In fact, we could produce as much food without having them being genetically modified. The fact is that crops are not distributed evenly, it’s just cheaper for the West. So what’s the point of using GMOs if they aren’t used the way the pro-GMOs say they are?
There’s an overproduction of crops all over the Western Hemisphere (actually, France has had a rise of 17% of crops this year, for example) but that still doesn’t feed all the hungry children in Africa…because they are going to be left to rot instead… So. GMO’s as a palliative until there’s a better solution for the hungry ones, but no GMOs just to have a higher production for less money (ie: I don’t like hyper-capitalism and I’m proud of it)

Again, you are arguing supply, not food.

GMO’s allows to double yeilds and create food in harsher climates, so do food you do grow can feed more people. 14 million in africa face starvation, the fact is food is given to them! ITS GIVEN! But the goverments refuse, afraid of completle groundless facts. Again, its easy for goverment offcials to refuse when they are not the one who are starving. So its their goverment refusing UN Food aid! Their companies are afraid to lose control, its not all one sided capitalism. The african goverments are guitly as well, and so is green peace and whatever other organization wich protest on unfounded information.

Its easy to be against it when you are not the one who is starving…

hu-hu. And why do we give the corn a “friendly little boost” if they can do fine on their own? What gives us the right to favor corns to bugs? And when the bugs evolve (way more rapidly) to keep up with their alter-ego corn, what tells you that we’re not destroying the ecosystem? Nature has a delicate balance, all we’re doing is tipping it to one side without balancing the other, and that is bound to mess the whole thing up.

Unfounded information, you are just speculating, we can all stand around and say “what if” but you or I have no right to be up on a moral horse when fellow humans are starving to death and say they have no right to eat because of potential unfounded claims.

We are already exporting alot of food, GMO’s allow the food to grow in harsher climates with more yeilds.

GMO’s already saved hundreds of millions of people, if not Billions!
If Greenpeace and organization like it had its way, those people would have been dead!

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RB: I couldn’t have said it better.

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If Greenpeace and organization like it had its way, those people would have been dead!

We all know that Greenpeace is fighting for the eradification of the Human Race… please…

Farmers have to buy GM seeds each season, and are not allowed to reuse seeds from last harvest, as would be the case with normal seeds - you know, the ones that God supposedly created??

GM crops help feed the world… It sounds nice, but only if you are suffering from a severe case of cranial-rectumitus…

We will never end wars or violence as long as people die of stravation!

I think the real problem is that so much money is getting wasted on bombs, and war technologies that ultimately end in death and destruction. If you take all of that money, and spent it on feeding and clothing the worlds poor and underprivelaged, there would be more than enough for everybody…

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**We all know that Greenpeace is fighting for the eradification of the Human Race… please… **

JOHANNESBURG — U.S. AID Administrator Andrew Natsios accused environmental groups yesterday of endangering the lives of millions of famine-threatened Africans by encouraging their governments to reject genetically modified U.S. food aid.
“They can play these games with Europeans, who have full stomachs, but it is revolting and despicable to see them do so when the lives of Africans are at stake,” Mr. Natsios said in an interview.
Mr. Natsios did not name specific groups, but other officials indicated he was infuriated by the activities in Zambia — a country he had just visited — of groups including Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth.
“They are using big-time, very well-organized propaganda the likes of which I have never seen before” in 12 years of American-led famine-relief efforts, said Mr. Natsios, who could not persuade the Zambians to accept U.S. food aid.
http://www.bretbarker.com/eye-openers/greens%20accused%20of%20helping%20africans%20starve%20–%20the%20washington%20times.htm

THE WASHINGTON TIMES, August 31, 2002

JOHANNESBURG ・Greenpeace and the Zambian delegation to
the U.N. World
Summit on Sustainable Development yesterday rejected American
claims that they were letting people starve through misplaced concern over
U.S.-supplied genetically modified corn.

U.S. foreign aid chief Andrew Natsios on Thursday criticized
environmental groups as “revolting and despicable” for urging starving
nations such as Zambia to reject American corn because of genetic
alteration.

AIDS and starvation have forced more than **half a million Zambian children **to quit school and take up often hazardous jobs in farms and factories, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) said on Monday

One in five Zambians is living with HIV/AIDS, a pandemic that has orphaned 800,000 children in the past 18 years. **Zambia is also one of six southern African countries facing severe food shortages.**http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/recent/developing/103002k.html

Source: Deutsche Presse Agentur
Date: 8 Oct 2002

Zambian police examine starvation reports, gov’t arresting critics

Lusaka (dpa) - Zambian authorities on Tuesday dispatched a police contingent to the country’s Southern Province to investigate reports of people dying of hunger and from eating poisonous wild roots.
The country’s National Food and Nutritional Commission also confirmed that pellagra, a disease caused by a nutritional deficiency, has broken out in the Southern Province.

Last week, Zambian President Levy Mwanawasa dismissed reports of starvation and ordered police to arrest members of parliament from the Southern Province who claimed that people in their constituencies were dying of hunger.

Tell me the did the right thing!!

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you know, those starving people would be just as happy with normal, non-GM food donations too… Was that ever considered?? Greenpeace is not fighting to keep the worlds hungry from eating food, despite what the GM food lobbyists will have you believe.

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GE do help feed the world,

No matter how it sounds, do you really beleive that without GE’s India would be where it is? Would China? Think of how many people the Rice research saved, think of the huge starvation that would be going on in Africa.

GMO’s have already saved hundreds of millions.

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World Food Programme Spokesman Richard Lee told the BBC that it would now be very difficult to meet the needs of the Zambian people.

He said his organisation was already only able to feed half of the people in need, and would have to work hard to find non-GM food.

The government would now ask the WFP to withdraw thousands of tonnes of US-donated grain that are in the country

BBC 29 oct 02
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE4/Zambia-Rejects-GM-Food29oct02.htm