we need to conclude this thread…
it is clear in america, what ethan states above is the case
and in europe, the compensation for the waiter is covered more by the restaurant…so next time im in NY i ill remember to tip 15%!
and when you are in europe, save your holiday money 
Yes Billy you are right, there is a difference internationally, but what confuses me is people who live in the US and don’t know the 15% rule. Would be like someone living over there and not knowing you don’t need to tip at all.
It is not a rule…It is a gratuity. That is what kills me people in the US think that it is an obigation.
gra·tu·i·ty ( P )
n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties
A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.
Please note the favor and gift part. Where does anyone get off saying it is a “rule” or and “obligation”.
So the people that are so gracious…I hope ya’ll take your gracious arses and tip your mailman. They provide a hell of a service.
Okay my two cents (pun intended…):
I recently got a job at a coffee shop, $7/hr + tips. The tips are taxed there, and go into the check, so I don’t see them immediatly. But I am astonished that I get tipped. Frankly, I’ve been there a month, and I SUCK. I mean, I try, and I’m nice, but sometimes I wonder why they throw the little bit of change or even dollars in the jar. I didn’t make things better for them, and I know it.
Which brings me to what I have to say…
I thinki, as do many others, tipping is for GOOD SERVICE. When I get slow service (and I take into account the business of the day and other factors), I don’t tip or tip low. Sorry I guess I’m a jerk. But when the waiter/waitress is awesome and I walk away with no regrets to spending my money, and feel like they really made my night special I try to tip at least 15. I have a friend that’s a waiter, and he’s a great guy, but I get maybe 1 refill of soda in sometimes a few hrs when I go to his resteraunt, late at night, when it shouldn’t be a problem. So I just payed about 2 dollars for a couple glasses of soda? No thanks. Thats poor service. Sorry, just how I see it.
TRUE STORY
I was in North Carolina, ordered take out - by phone - from the Outback.
Went to pick it up, there are designated spaces in front with signs that say “Take Out Parking” I parked got out and a waitress came out and said what are you doing–we bring the food out to you. I apologized got back in my car and waited. She brought my food out - I gave her the money there was a pause and she said “Do you want your change”. I could not believe it.
I would have gladly gone inside to get the food myself.
TD
Why people don’t leave tips is beyond me, and why some people think they’re high and mighty enough to patronize their server by leaving little “notes” on their receipt is as equally if not more baffeling.
Despite what some people might think, a lot of servers are well aware of their role and even more aware of what a lot of customers think of them. They work hard, get yelled at (sometimes for some of the most inane reasons), and if they work in a “family” restaurant, get left to babysit the offspring of the laziest and most inconsiderate of parents. I guess tipping wouldn’t be so much of an issue if a number of people would learn to behave themselves in a restaurant and show a little more respect.
Then again, I guess they can repay your “kindness” later by just urinating in your clam chowder.
i agree with you but thats an incorrect use of the word “patronizing”…sorry, just a pet peeve of mine…i couldnt resist.
Hey, you got a problem? Write it on the receipt.
how is that a wrong use??
it means to be condescending so i dont see the problem
Thanks for ruining that for me.
;(
Personally, the way the restaraunt industry is run is, in one word: INSANE!!!
It doesn’t make any sense to me.
Here I am, a big-shot company owner, and I need to hire some customer service/sales employees. So, unlike a normal company, which will pay, say, somewhere around $8 - $10 / hr to their customer service/sales employees (okay, I’m being a little gererous), I decide to pay a measly amount of change - less than $3.00 usually, and tell them that the rest of their paycheck is directly determined by how generous the customer is after - and this is the real kicker - after they have already paid the amount on the bill for the goods and services rendered!
Any corporate type business person would probably look at this, and spit Starbucks all over the screen in shock, and amazement. Well, hypothetically anyway - they could prefer Krispy Kreme’s Coffee.
Now, I can see some bit of logic behind this thinking - the employee may be compelled to do a **** good job, and try to get that extra 5+% or so, but as most of the posts above mine mentioned - this is rarely the case. Instead, the employee, and usually the company itself act as if they are entitled to an extra compensation, for what is to me, not very much work, and when they don’t receive what they feel is up to their expectations, they are insulted, or whatever. I dunno, it seems like the system is flawed somewhere… let me try to analyze this another way - lets try comparing it to another system.
Lets say I’m thirsty, and their happens to be a gas station just down the street. I run in, grab a Dew from the fridge (anyone try that Pitch Black yet? Great stuff!) Step up to the counter, and pay my $1.19 to a clerk who gets paid a minimal - yet adequate for the job - wage to accept my money, and leave with my carbonated beverage needs fulfilled.
Now, lets apply the restaraunt philosophy to this equation:
I get to the store - and keeping it somewhat parralel to the way a restaraunt works, lets say that all the soda is kept in a back room. I go to the counter, and ask for a Dew, which the clerk dutifully retreives for me, then asks me for the same $1.19 - plus %15 gratuity. Now anyone who knows any math should be able to tell you that %15 of $1.19 is $0.1785 - roughly 18 cents, bringing the cost of the soda up to a whopping $1.37!!! Outrageous!!! Okay, not really, but what would the logic be behind this? So I ask the clerk - why the gratutity? Isn’t it enough that I pay the asking price of the beverage - a price, I might add, which already includes bit of mark-up for overhead, and profit to the business? And the clerk will proably reply: I only get paid $2.20 / hr, and live on tips, plus, I retreved the soda for you. To which my reply would have to be: a: find a better job, and b: is it really that big a deal to take 3 steps?
Obviously, the model doesn’t work outside of the restaruant setting… and I really don’t think it fits inside it either…
If I go to a restaraunt and order a soda, there’s not much difference from the above example: The price is about the same (sometimes more), though they do (sometimes) give free refills. And a (supposedly) cheerful, and pleasant server brings it to you. I honestly can’t see enough difference to warrant such a drastic change. The only thing that I think can possibly account for the way the gratuity system works, is that it has been around so long that its simply accepted as normal (a problem for a lot of bad things, like smoking, for instance).
Ideally, if I go to a restaraunt - lets say a relatively fancy one, like a Houlihans, if I order a burger, a salad, and a drink, I should pay for the service with the meal itself, and if the service is above and beyond normal, then it should be up to me if I want to add on a little extra for the server - all of which should go to the server, not anyone else. This makes more sense to me. Perhaps it would mean that I pay a little bit more for the burger - but not a lot more. Plus, it would mean that if I decide to tip the server, it would be more in the range of say %5 - %7, roughly, but that should be a BONUS to their normal paycheck of $6.50 or whatever, because, essentially, that’s what gratuity MEANS:
A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.
It honestly makes no sense whatsoever to make the employee feel they are entitled to a Bonus - it puts them almost in a battle with the customers.
Now, those of you reading my lengthy post who work for tips are proably saying to yourself: "%5?! you only want to pay %5!?!?!"
But again, I want to point out that - in my opinion - a server should get paid like everyone else. I show up to work everyday, therefore I get paid a standard wage, which is enough by itself (in theory) to live on. Why should it be any different for a server? They show up to work, and work just as hard - if not harder - than a lot of other people out there. While I don’t feel that they are nessecarilty entitled to a huge tip, I do feel they are entitled to a normal paycheck, with normal wages.
I think I’ve pretty much exhausted my thoughts on the matter - and I apologize if they seem to jump around, without making a whole lot of sense - I just got home from work (its now 8:13 am), and I have only had about 2.5 hours of sleep since getting home from work yesterday. My brain is a little fried right now… I’ll try to ammend this later, if I notice too many inconsistancies…
I do want to add a quick quote from an article I just read yesterday which I think can add a small ammount of insight to the matter of the so-called: "obligated gift".
A related phenomenon, called ‘behavioral contrast,’ occurs in chimpanzees, among other species. A chimpanzee is doing a simple task such as pulling a lever and is being rewarded with pieces of lettuce, which they like to eat. After doing this for a while, one pull is rewarded with a grape, which they really love to eat. On the next pull, the chimp is given lettuce again and they get very upset, throwing the lettuce at the experimenter. They were perfectly happy with lettuce before, but the presentation of the grape creates new expectations and when those expectations aren’t met, frustration and anger invariably results.
-from ‘Behavioral Game Design’, written by John Hopson :: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010427/hopson_02.htm
I completely agree with you, Tim. It’s a wierd system and I can’t figure out why it’s done that way.
Either there is some way that the tips escape taxing or maybe the restaurant think they get more customers if they can advertise lower prices and rely on you to pay more than they ask. Both practices are deceptive, IMO.
Maybe I should stare bright eyed at my customer the next time they pay their invoice and explain that I thought we had an unwritten agreement that they’d pay more than we agreed on in the first place…
Yeah, yeah… I know. It’s customary and I’ll tip when I go to the states. But I’ll still think that it’s a crazy system… 
SeiferTim you may think that’s it’s not much work waiting tables but the reality of it is that most servers spend their entire shift on their feet, NO BREAKS! NO KIRUPAFORUM! taking care of 30 or 40 people.
For the love of GOD! Pull out your wallets and throw down five or ten bucks at the end of the night! It won’t kill you! It’ll actually help! You’re friends won’t be making fun of your tight wallet behind your back any more and your server won’t be either. :lol:
I kinda see it your way too tim. I have yet to come across a restaurant tat pays their waitresses so low. But then again they could be lying about their wage. I think if you wa re hired to do something do it to the best of your ability not to get a bonus from the patron but maybe a bonus from the company. I know it is wishful thinking to say the industry should be this way, because it is not. But on the other hand to say that a person will only give you good service if they are going to get a little extra on the side is kinda absurd too. So to maintain my stance I dont tip uness the person does something just above and beyond. Getting my food and refills are not above and beyond to me.
Which is why I said this:
But again, I want to point out that - in my opinion - a server should get paid like everyone else. I show up to work everyday, therefore I get paid a standard wage, which is enough by itself (in theory) to live on. Why should it be any different for a server? They show up to work, and work just as hard - if not harder - than a lot of other people out there. While I don’t feel that they are nessecarilty entitled to a huge tip, I do feel they are entitled to a normal paycheck, with normal wages.
Besides, anywhere (that I know of) the servers are allowed breaks if they work a minimum number of hours - to skip breaks is completely up to the employee. In fact, a lot of places I’ve been to, our server would disappear for about 5 minutes every 25, to go have a smoke break. If you find yourself in a job that pays below minimum wage, and doesn’t give you any breaks (I think the mandate is 1 half-hour break every 6 hours of work, but I could be wrong…) I’d be calling the Better Business Bureau - Wonder why the Food industry is exempt from these rules…?
Well tips are not required here in Australia and a waiter/waitress would never ask or expect one.
If I go somewhere where they bring you bill to you at the table, I think it is only right to give a tip… 10-15% depending on what I thought of the place…
I once gave some chick in a clothing store a tip when I bought a suite and some Italian deer skin shoes…
I gave her $50 bucks… she said I didn’t have to she gets commission… But I liked the way she ran her hand up my legs when measuring for my pants…
I went back to the store a few months later and did it to her again
Hmmmmm Italian deer skin… soft as a babies arse…
Smooooooooth… 
ok…
i went out for dinner last night to a restaurant in Chelsea which is mean to be one of the top ones in London, and their prices reflect that too… it was a friends birthday and we thought wed go all out…
so all was cool, very nice place BUT here is the problem…SERVICE
first one of the guys finds a fly in his wine and all we get is a sorry, no free bottle or side dish, nothing which IMO sucks…
then the waiter can hardly speak english and as its an indian restaurant, we order dishes with stupid names… when the food comes, he starts putting it down in front of anyone he feels like, letting us sort out whats what which is not good. then when we have all finished, bar one person…he starts taking plates away from the table! i was like WTF!! and told him to go away.
at the end of the meal, we were gonna give him a crap tip but the bill comes and service is included!!! i mean the cheek! are they that confident their service is any good! so we told them they sucked balls and left…
this place charges £9 for a starter! thats like $15 dollars… if you ask me, some of the restaurant industry is raping a lot of us nad cos its a public environment, you dont say anything…
Billy, I feel for you and your companions. Bad Service makes the whole industry’s reputation worse. But don’t take your dislike of this crappy waiter out on your next server. The majority of servers (and I mean majority by 60/40) try to do a good job. I don’t know how it is in your neck of the woods, but if you ever come and visit the colonies (the states) you’ll find that service is very important to those in the restaurant business. For instance:
Your bottle of wine bit… the bottle would have been replaced at any restaurant.
The tip is not included on any bill, exception: if you have over a party of 20. And then its only 15% of the bill.
Most servers will remember what dish goes to whom and if they don’t they will call out the name of the dish so that the proper person can respond.
Now, as far removing the plates after your done eating…I think that that is a good thing. That way if you are going to have dessert the table is clear of dishes.
Remember, no matter what line of work that people are in, you will eventually come into contact with an a-hole. Its gonna happen, get over it. But don’t take it out on the next person in that industry that you run into. Peace.
I think he meant that the dishes were being cleared when all but one person was finished - sometimes this is rude - as if the server is trying to rush the stragler.
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