Immigrants Must Adapt!

talk
21

you all should chill out here…
I find some of you too **** patriotic (and I don’t understand why you should be proud of the country you were born in…). I also think that social, cultural and religious alternatives are a good way to have a society evolve. The fact that some of you want immigrants to speak english is only natural, the fact that some of you just don’t accept immigrants (yes Telekinesis, I’m pointing at you) is just dumb and so out of tune with the world we live in (you know, the one that has planes that can get you from one side of the world to the other in less than 12hours)
That “mail” (anyone thought of the motives of the one who actually wrote this mail?) is not only conservative, it’s extremely obnoxious in some ways - we own the land, that’s the way we live, and that’s the way we like it, who the **** are you to want that to change, blablabla. I’ve lived in many places (States included), I’ve heard of the “American Way of Life” more than once, I still don’t know what it is. I’m still hesitating between laxism and paranoia… maybe both, mixed with patriotism in some extreme and (imo) ****ed up way.

Though I don’t find the motto “In God we trust” offensive, because I take it in the context of 18th century America, the fact that certain leaders of yours assume that God is blessing the USA is as dumb as assuming that God is blessing Mollah Omar. Who is anyone to say that God is on one’s side? :frowning:

I ramble to much I guess. And I’m happy I don’t think the way some of you do on this board.

[edit: I’m part of the Generation Playstation-ite I guess… but that sounded pretty degrading in some way. Was it meant to be degrading Psych?]

22

^^^i agree with you that lifestyles are different in different parts of the US. but that does not mean that you have to be a “professor in the way of American life” to express your views and opinions on the topic. your professor statement is a weak attempt at getting anyone with opposing views to silence their opinion so that you can dominate the conversation (and seemingly win what you deem to be an argument).

^^^yet you ignore the fact that you said, “I think that I am a better person morally and ethically and in staving off these ‘temptations’ than most people who are religious,” clearly showing that you are in fact the one generalizing.

^^^you have clearly become so insecure in your beliefs and intellectual power of your statements that you will take weak jabs at anyone challenging you.

23

Originally Posted by Javifutbolista
I’ve seen lots of immigrants and while their english may be tainted by a foreign accent, I haven’t seen one case of a person who refuses to learn English.

:lol: not sure where your from dude but i live in Brooklyn, New York. many many people refuse to learn english and many mexicans can’t stand us white folk. funny they come here and want to stab anyone that walks buy them. but then we as americans should learn their language to make them feel more comfortable? :lol: sorry.

also your comment about the Holy Bible is untrue and offensive. let me ask? when the world is ending and your curled up in a little ball crying who will you pray to? I bet the same God you bashed with that previous statement.

24

hehe - I have to say that you are a little off base on this one. I too have lived in various places in the US (Wisconsin, Tennessee, Alabama, and now Boston). The American Way of life, at the least, does involve speaking English. It may differ on all kinds of stuff, but the most basic characteristic of any culture is probably language.

It is not that difficult to see such people who refuse to speak in English, and their refusal is not due to their geographical location like you seem to make it out to be. Wherever there are ethnic communities, you will find that it is much easier for people of foreign languages to co-operate with each other using their own language as opposed to learning English.

I do not tolerate the lazy and unmotivated in society who decide that we should somehow tolerate their choice in not wanting to learn the language. Like I said earlier, that is the least they could do for living in the US.

This country needs to stop pandering to the politically correct crowd, who thankfully, play with their Playstations all the time anyway :slight_smile:

:gas:

25

quote PRStudio:

‘We as Americans however, being the diverse nation we are experience more cultural clashes than say France.’

That is not correct. The french have a massive amount of Moroccan/Black immigrants in populated areas. PRStudio forgets that with free movement between EU countries, European cities are easily as multi-cultural as American cities.

We are all forgetting that the cultures we percieve as our ‘national identities’ are relative. People like that guy who wrote the email have a rational point in that of course it makes sense that all immigrants should learn the mother tongue, HOWEVER I bet he has never immersed himself in another culture and fully understands what immigrants go through…

I for one believe that we as residents should do our utmost to help immigrants understand how we see the world and in turn learn from their culture… not try and force them into a stereotype of ‘english’ or ‘american’.

we are all immigrants. Having lived in several parts of the UK i identify myself more as a LONDONER than an Englishman…the cultural differences are marked in England.

26

If the majority of the country wanted to change stuff, (Like removing some religious things from money and the like) it probably would happen.

27

Personally, if I came to work in America, I would not ‘adapt’ culturally to being American…

Beyond obeying your laws, paying my taxes, I would be free to live how I liked…unless someone thinks differently?

28

Billy > Correct. Though not Moroccan as much as Algerian… :slight_smile: And yes, Shengen helps with cultural diversity… And you speak english already, so having to live “differently” wouldn’t be like staying immersed into your mother tongue…

29

That’s pretty much what most if not all of us Americans do :wink: What makes you different from some of the people the writer targets is that you and I speak English as opposed to forcing everyone around us to learn our, non-English, language instead.

Anybody in today’s society who obeys laws and pays taxes should automatically be made eligible for sainthood :stuck_out_tongue:

30

Kirupa> the writer targets not only the onew who don’t learn the language, he also targets the ones who don’t like the US “In God we trust”, he targets the ones who don’t like the pledge of allegiance and the ones who don’t like the way most americans live. So it’s not only about language… :slight_smile:

31

That’s fine dude, but like Kman said, you speak the language. If you didn’t then would you expect me to learn british ( :lol: i know that’s not a language… is it? )

32

Yeah - hence the reason I said “some of the people the writer targets” :slight_smile: Those other things the writer mentions are just, in my view, petty disagreements that even Americans have.

33

true, we forget a lot of the ex-colonies (kenya–>england, algeria–> france) speak their mother tongue already, so immigration is less severe culturally than for hispanics moving to america i guess…

In my experience a lot of the problems we talk about are associated with first generation immigrants. Second and third generations integrate much better and of course grow up bi-lingual

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[font=Verdana]I whole heatedly disagree… [/font]

[font=Verdana]And I’m going to go through this article piece by piece.[/font]

[font=Verdana]

IMMIGRANTS,
NOT AMERICANS,
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11,
we have experienced a surge
in patriotism by the majority
of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about
the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
[/font]

[font=Verdana]First of all, why is this is even an issue, I don’t see immigrants marching through the streets yelling “BE LIKE US!” Second of all, there has never been a loss of nationalism, there has never been any immigrant who said, “Im being offended’ the POLITCAL CORRECTNESS was brought up by other Americans, and not immigrants! No immigrant has ever said that patriotism was offending him or her. [/font]

[font=Verdana]

and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a
multicultural community
has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we
have our own culture, our
own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
[/font]

[font=Verdana]America** is** a multi-cultural community, that’s why we have China town’s, Little Italy, that’s why we have so many different churches and temples so many dialects, so many skin colors, so many ideas and so many IMMIGRANTS. Saying its not, is being ignorant to the most possible extent. [/font]

[font=Verdana]The second part is where he really gets me mad. Especially when he says

has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
[/font]

[font=Verdana]This is where I realized the author has his head shoved deep in his buttocks…[/font]

[font=Verdana]Right, tell that to the thousands of immigrants who barely stepped off the boat from Europe before they where given a rifle and sent to fight for the Union, how many of them died after just weeks in the USA.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Tell this to the countless immigrants who can barely speak English who fought in the fields of France in 1917! Those who volunteered and died there, where they less American because they spoke better Polish or Ukrainian?[/font]

[font=Verdana]Didn’t anyone ever hear of the 442nd division in 1942? They took the most casualties out of** all other US division of WW2**? They where also the most decorated US combat unit? Does anyone remember that they where almost all ichisei, nisei and sansei? Meaning First, Second and Third generation immigrants? Most of which where deep within Japanese culture, many out of school spoke only Japanese, some where very American, but all of the fought like no other.[/font]

[font=Verdana]And my friend Ilya, he was born in Russia, lived in a Russian community in Seattle, spoke mostly Russian, and almost all of his friends were Russian. Yet he enlisted in the reserves, because of his knowledge of the Russian Language and culture he was sent to the Special Forces with whom he conducted many operation within Afghanistan, yet beside a “average” American, he looks like he never been to the states before. [/font]

[font=Verdana]Me too, before I was even a US citizen, I already was enrolled in the USAF ROTC program. And I plan to serve this country, and to fight for it. Yet when people ask me, what are you? I always respond “I’m Russian”[/font]

[font=Verdana]

We speak ENGLISH , not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.
Therefore, if you wish to become part
[/font]

[font=Verdana]That’s funny, because I speak French and Russian, my friend Jolene speaks Japanese, my other friends speak Korean, Tagalong, Ukrainian, Spanish, German and Chinese. Are they less American? [/font]

Learning English is fine, I agree that it can facilitate day-to-day activity, but it does NOT DEFINE AN AMERICAN CITZEN!

[font=Verdana]When will people realize America has NO OFFICIAL LANGUAGE![/font]

[font=Verdana]NONE! We can speak Pig-Latin if we wanted too![/font]

[font=Verdana]At has it ever hurt us? Can anyone prove me that this is why the WTC came down? Did we have two CIA agents who spoke different languages that couldn’t communicate with each other? It has never hurt us.[/font]

[font=Verdana]

In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan… We adopted this motto because Christian men and women,
on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.
It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools. If God
offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as
your new home, because God is part
of our culture.
[/font]

[font=Verdana]This man should read up on the LAW that the FOUNDING fathers included which states the separation of church and state. [/font]

[font=Verdana]We can argue forever what this country was founded on, because I disagree that it was founded on the idea of GOD. But the fact remains, people came here to escape religious prosecution, the author should be ashamed that he judges other people loyalty on the belief in GOD. [/font]

[font=Verdana]

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or
you don’t like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move
to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have
no desire to change, and we really
don’t care how you did things where
you came from. This is
OUR COUNTRY,
our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion and we
will allow you every opportunity! to do
so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag,
our pledge, our national motto, or our
way of life, I highly encourage you
take advantage of one other great American freedom,
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
[/font]

[font=Verdana]
This is where the author nails himself in the mouth.[/font]

[font=Verdana]That’s right, I am American, and I am happy in my Russian culture! So is everyone else! Its our right as Americans to be free, and if we want to speak pig-latin, then its our choice! I cant believe he even mentions the part about Stars and Stripes. Crap, there is almost no one who is offended by it. And I can name you many Americans who don’t even know where their roots are from who LOATHE the Image of Uncle Sam![/font]

[font=Verdana]This author is high on something, he lives in some dream state where all American Citizens live the American dream, drive their family sized-suv’s to Church every Sunday, followed by a game of Football. [/font]

[font=Verdana]This author needs to wake up and smell the coffee, and while he’s at it, get his foot out of his mouth.[/font]

[font=Verdana]This response was also written by an American Citizen.[/font]
[font=Verdana]And I beleive in Cultural Diversity, Not Assimilation [/font]

35

definitely true. but it’s still frustrating to see and hear some people make no effort to learn the language.

fortunately, i think we may be looking at the end of non-english-speaking first generation americans. i think it would be a slow change, but my reasoning is that more students outside the US are learning english in school and that the economy is becoming significantly more global. it seems to me that more immigrants would arrive in the US already speaking english. but maybe i’m wrong. i guess i’d need more international opinions.

36

That’s true, but for example in the South where I live, the average new immigrant is not from a well-educated background. The average Mexican or Cuban that I have seen doing tasks such as mowing the lawn, doing construction work, etc. seem to speak only Spanish. Increased access to good education in other countries will help a lot like you mention :slight_smile:

37

quote Russian Beer: America is a multi-cultural community

true, we are all multi-cultural communities…we only have to look at the architecture around us, the food we eat etc…

what the author means, but is too dumb to express it correctly, is that MULTI- NATIONALISM is bad for a country.

where you get people coming in who dont want to be British or American. In doing so they destabilise communities and create rensentment towards their fellow immigrants from the existing population.

MULTI CULTURALISM is a great thing about the modern world… MULTI NATIONALISM is what ****s up countries

If you really want to be an American citizen and live in its borders, then you should respect the base cultural values for existence which include LANGUAGE. Otherwise dont become a citizen and have a nice holiday.

I for one find it offensive when I go to my firends houses whose origins are from say, Pakistan, and they speak their native tongue. This behaviour only ALIENATES me.

Language seeks to provide a common ground for different cultures. So **‘Russian Beer’ ** I would say language is crucial to national identity

38

It only takes 3 months to learn another language. But it only takes 3 days before you starve. So they have to start working before they actually learn English. In the meanwhile, they get support from speakers of the same language as their mother tongue. That’s why you have what people call “communities”. It takes a while to adapt, it doesn’t come in a day…
Increased access to good education… lol. Why do you think they came to the states? Do you really think it’s for THEM? I actually think that’s one big misconception. People come to the USA to make sure their OFFSPRING is going to get a good education. They’d stay in their country if education was good. (good education in a country == high human development index and then, there’d be no real need to leave your birth country to begin with)

bwh> you want my international opinion? we should all start learning chinese… :slight_smile:

39

billy i was just trying to think of a country that had a really strong national pride and culture that was small in size, you’re right the whole EU does change that a little :slight_smile:

40

That’s why it’s HOME. cause you can speak your mother tongue without people judging you. You shouldn’t feel offended or alientated.
On another note, nationalism is what ****s up a country, be it multi or single. That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it, yes.