Illegal Immigration

talk
1

Please excuse my ignorance, but why do people immigrate to the US illegally and become when they can instead become legal citizens?

I saw a story on 20/20 today about car washes and the owners screwing over the workers with very little pay. This reminded me of some other stories I heard about other cases of Mexicans being abused.

Despite my ignorance on the subject, here is my opinion: aliens should be aggressively deported. They undermine the entire system, it seems. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t care if all of Mexico suddenly picked up camp and landed in California. HOWEVER, this is when everyone is a LEGAL CITIZEN, who pays the taxes, files the right papers, and so on. Why is this such a big deal? Isn’t America the place for anyone who wants to move to and get full, unbiased citizenship? At least, that’s what I’ve been taught living in the Midwest, maybe things are different in California and Florida…

PS:: I don’t want to hear any crap about job stealing, please. Among equals (equals being citizens) you (being the universal, ambiguous you, not “you” reading this :-\ ) have the same right to a job that anyone else has.

2

why do people immigrate to the US illegally and become when they can instead become legal citizens?..

…I saw a story on 20/20 today about car washes and the owners screwing over the workers with very little pay.

They do it because they have a better life doing that than they had in their home country. I really have no opinion on this issue except that all illegal aliens, regardless of their nationality, should be treated equally.

3

but why ILLEGALLY? that is my question and my issue. Of course all CITIZENS should be treated equal, but if you aren’t paying taxes and are freeloading off of mine just because you won’t register, get out of my country.

Why are they not citizens?

4

*Originally posted by Yates *
**but why ILLEGALLY? that is my question and my issue. Of course all CITIZENS should be treated equal, but if you aren’t paying taxes and are freeloading off of mine just because you won’t register, get out of my country.

Why are they not citizens? **

I was not saying that illegals should be treated equally with legal immigrants or citizens. What I was saying was that our government should treat all illegal immigrants equally, regardless of their nationality.

5

USA is not a country that accepts everyone anymore, it is extremly hard to immigrate to the USA. Even university honor students get deported for no reason. It has become, extremly hard to immigrate. So thats why people do it illigaly. Because its their only hope.

6

Yes - it is the US’s right to deny immigration to people. Coming in illegally is extremely dumb, ruins the schools, tax base, etc. because most illegals do not pay taxes nor do they help the non-underground economy.

Illegal immigration is worse than terrorism because anybody can just hop right on into the US from the Mexico or even our friendly, unguarded Canadian border.

7

Let me drop a bombshell on this whole argument going on here…

You argue about illegal immigrants who don’t pay taxes and undermine the system, but what do you think Welfare does?

Hundreds of thousands of LEGAL Americans collecting money each and every month, never paying a dime for housing, and getting food stamps on top of it all. So not only are they not paying taxes, they GET money for doing nothing!

At least these illegal immigrants do some kind of manual labor.

Don’t get me wrong - I hate the fact there are illegal immigrants in our nation. It’s wrong, it shouldn’t be, and we need to take steps to correct this problem.

I just wanted all of you who support the idea of welfare to think about this nation’s BIGGEST internal problem.

Welfare should be reformed - it’s intention is to help people, not for them to live off it - and the topic of illegal immigration needs to be attended to.

8

Welfare is an ingregal part of a properly functioning society. To best provide for its citizens, a system must be in place that is able to provide for people who, for whatever reason, are temporarily unable to provide for themselves.

The purpose of this system is to give these people the opportunity to get their affairs in order and get back onto their feet without dying first. Desperate people aren’t the kind people you want to be living next door to.

However, the catch is the system SHOULD function like a safety net, NOT a crutch. Welfare is to catch people down on their luck and give them another chance. The complaint that I hear (and agree with mostly) is that rather Welfare has become an exceptable lifestyle. People who institutionally and voluntarily live off welfare revolt me. As far as I’m concerned, they are no better than a common, lazy, self-righteous theif (because they DESERVE it)

I’m getting off topic. In any case, here is what I would like to see happen:

#1: Legalize all aliens. Does this suck? Oh wow, yes it does. But its time they are accountable to the system. Make some law that follows along this line:

Part 1:Immigration offices are now open to all current aliens as of (date). There are no pentaties. Simply come in, we’ll get you a SS and register you, and you’re set to go.

Part 2: All illegals that fail to comply are criminals that will be agressively sought, captured, punished, and deported. Illegals have no rights besides the most basic human rights. (as in, we provide nothing for them, but you can’t load them up in a truck and drive off a cliff)

#2: Crack down hard on illegal immigration. Want to help fix the war of drugs and terrorism threats? Make borders like fortresses. You’re caught trying to cross illegally? Bam, that’s cap in your back.

Of course, the flipside is that anyone is free to enter legally. Get a Visa, apply for visitation, heck, become a citizen, more power to you. I think immigration is great. Why not offer the worlds best, brightest, and hardest working an opportunity where they are best free to profit from their labor? But illegals? A severe a*s kicking.

9

I disagree, I know too many people who without welfare would not have made it. Including myself, when we immigrated here, we had very little money, and could say 3 words in english. And in the community of immigrants (ghetto) Because of welfare , me my bro, my cousing, my aunt, and my whole family that came. It has also helped almost all of the people I know, some, I admit are still on it. But thats because of learning disabilities that cant make them move on.

There is a work-for-welfare program in some states and its just friggin horrible. The living conditions under welfare suck, but working under it , is even worse.

Yes, while I admit there are many people who take advantage of it. In the end , the ammount it helps outweighs the ammount that take advantage. And it might seem to us that everyone is taking advantage of it, well thats because the news agencies are not going to make a story about: Welfare; doing good! No one wants to hear it, but the abuse stories they go on well.

According to data obtained from the House of Representatives Ways and Means Committee as well as the United States Department of Labor more than half of the recipients of AFDC were off within a year. Numerous studies have shown that over 90 percent of AFDC recipients stop receiving aid within two years. In relation to other federal government programs, AFDC makes up a grand total of 2 percent of the federal budget. After adjusting for inflation, AFDC benefits have decreased 47 percent from 1970 to 1994. And, I know this might come as a shock to most of you CONservatives out there, according to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), in 41 of the 50 states, when AFDC and food stamp benefits are combined a family lives a whopping 25 percent below the poverty line. This translates to roughly $8,700 a year for a family of three

source: utdailybeacon.com | The editorially independent student newspaper at the University of Tennessee, since 1906.

10

IMMIGRATION:
Back to the topic again, with all illigal immigrants we should do what we do with cuba. If the can get past the border and the patrols. Then they can immigrate legaly. Because it obviously dosent work to deport people, and the goverment looses money on taxes and other things. And the people are forced to work either in crime or under the table, horrible working conditions.

11

I agree to the point : Yes the law is the law, they are illigal, get out. Me and my family had to go through tons of battles against the bastards at the INS and the bastards at the Washington border! They are no exception!

But, kicking everyone out, just wont work. Thats why I say, if the can make it that far, we should allow them to immigrate, like cubans.

12

That’s why I say: lets cut our losses now and fix the problem here on out. Let’s go ahead and legalize who we have now, and punt the ones who refuse to comply. Obviously, we can’t start opening some serious whoop a*s on millions (many very innocent) who were before protected by the system. Of course, lets make becoming a citizen a process that the world can look up to “Look at the Americans, anyone can become a citizen there!”

On the flipside, I’d also like to see some benchmark illegal legislation. I’m not trying to be Le Pen here, but get them the hell out.

As for welfare, like I said before (and Russian was talking about) it is absolutely necessary for what it supposed to do: help those down on their luck get the resources they need to make it here in America. The concern people have is when it becomes an institutionalized hand-out system, and TRUST ME, it is in many places.

One final thing: Don’t get me wrong on this, I’m 100% for legal immigration. Come to the border, get SS#, pay your taxes, great. I for one would like to see more RussianBeers around here. :thumb:

13

Yep, I agree with Yates,
Let make this country an example. Immigrants is what makes this country what it is today.
Ironic Story: Years ago, my mom got remaried and moved to the States with me. We thought as Canadian citezens it would be easy to immigrate. We spoke the language, we where educated, we had good jobs, We where also very wrong. Immigrating here is like walking on glass, except you dont have to deal with the INS when your walking on glass. Anyway, after getting trough we where on wait for our Resident cards. But we wanted tto go for a day see freinds in Vancouver, so we go to the INS get papers. Go to vancouver for a few hours , come back. Crossing back it appears our papers where wrong (**** INS) So after hours and hours at the border, my step dad snaps and says " Instead of stopping us why dont you stop all the illigals, coming in from mexico!!!" And the border guard replies " Yeah , I’m one of em"
Opps…

Appearntly he illigaly crossed the border as a young man, and eventualy got a job for stopping all those illigal Canadians crossing the borders all the time :sure:

14

So cubans who are seeking refuge from Fidel should be sent back to Fidel?

15

On the contrary , Cubans who make it to US soil, are granted asylum.

16

i may be wrong, I’ve never really payed much attention to this issue, but I was under the impression that any non-injured cubans found on rafts in the ocean were returned to Cuba by the coast guard.

Maybe these links are wrong, but:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/956878/posts

http://www.cnn.com/1999/WORLD/americas/12/10/cuba.boy.03/

Under the agreements, U.S. officials are to send Cubans rescued at sea back to Cuba but allow those who make it ashore to stay. Cuban officials are to prevent people from leaving the communist island illegally.

17

Cubans who are seeking refuge from Fidel should rise up against their dictator, not float a friggin’ make-shift raft across hazardous waters and HOPE to land in the USA. **NOTICE: I HAVE NO QUALMS WITH CUBANS!

If there were a revolt in Cuba, you can be sure the US would provide support to the rebels.

Since people would rather take their chances with the sea, I’d like to see Cubans who come to the US legalized. I have no problems with immigration, as long as it’s done the proper way. I do have a problem, however with immigrants who come to this nation and never learn to speak English.

Many years ago when my great grandparents came across the Atlantic on boat from Italy, there was no welfare, there were only 2 rules … EVERYONE came into the nation through Elis Island where they were placed into the “system,” and the second rule was learn English if you wanted to live.

Well, neither of the 2 rules exist anymore. Immigrants come from all over, and live here for years before thinking of becoming legalized citizens, and while they’re here, most of them don’t even learn the language.

I’m REALLY mad that we live in America, and you can choose to take the PA Drivers Permit test in Spanish … Last time I checked, all road signs are written in English. Even police now have to learn Spanish to be on the force. Something’s seriously wrong with this situation.

18

Nali,
I spicificaly said

On US soil
, if the cought crossing they are sent back…

19

1). So we should award freedom to people based on their swimming ability and send the others back to cuba to be killed instead of the coast guard picking them up and bringing them here?

2). Bay of Pigs magick.

20

Sorry man, I completle disagree with you…

Cubans who are seeking refuge from Fidel should rise up against their dictator, not float a friggin’ make-shift raft across hazardous waters and HOPE to land in the USA.

Cuba, as country is doing EXTREMLY well, Considoring they have been under sanctions and embargoes for almost 50 years. And to that their economy is doing also, not that bad. Sure its poop compared to America, but most countries are like that… but decpite being within a few miles from the strongest nation in the world, who wants to remove castro, is still growing. They have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, and they also have a good education system. Sure he is a dictator, but he must be one of the nicest dictators around, he accutaly allows people to leave his country! They have 0 children on the steet.

I’m REALLY mad that we live in America, and you can choose to take the PA Drivers Permit test in Spanish … Last time I checked, all road signs are written in English.

I dont think its bad, at all… Whats wrong with diversity?
America has no official language, so there is no reason to enforce learning english as a citizenship requirement.

Sure sending them back on swimming capabilites is not to great, but its a way to control the immigration from that country…
Considoring , we would be sending them back EVEN if they made it to shore otherwise…
And NO Nali, in cuba they wont be killed…