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41

nothing sour in here.
i would say every thead containing dangerous themes ends here.

well if there would be anyone defending the government of south africa, I would criticize him/her too. But I still think, things like this should be much easier for a government in the USA than in lets say Argentinia.

I am also criticizing some aspects of the german government, but there are just a lot more mistakes made by bush&co at the moment.

[qoute]No human can change and be totally perfect[/quote]
at least you can try to :wink:

42

*Originally posted by odedvard *
**quote ave:

I find it interesting that when faced with this issue the best anyone can say is something like

‘well we have more people’
or
‘we sell more guns’

I find it odd the way you flipantly pass it off as part of life, we are talking about the murder of human beings not some irrelevent consumer issue.

Death is a part of life, murder has been happening since the dawn of time. BTW you didn’t offer any thoughts on the subject. All i got from your post was-- ave thinks its interesting and odd how people pass off murder. hmmmm thats deep. **

Then you obviously havent read all my posts then have you.
HA so murder been happening forever therefor its OK then right :sure:

I suppose rape and child molestation are ok to , after all they have been happenning since the dawn of time i dont see what the fuss is about really now you put it like that :thumb:

You don’t here about the killings of South Africa do you? Or how about Brazil?! Nope… Because they aren’t a heavily mediatized nation

er yes we do ? and also i believe it was noted many times that i personally (and others to i guess) was talking about western democratic governments…i am fully aware there are many many more violent places on earth

43

Playa - your avatar pic looks beautiful :love:

( see…no hate here :skull: )

44

:frowning: kirupa is destroying our hate thread

45

please oh wise mcgiver, one who knows all about america, tell me why it is bush’s fault. I’ve searched all over google and every site i find says there were murders before bush came to office. Maybe I’m just using the wrong engine, but please enlighten me.

I still fail to see how people from a country that has killed hundreds of millions of people over the last century through either the Holocaust or starting a world war can criticize another government for having a higher murder rate.

I don’t know much about Germany, bu how many people of different race and religion do you know? I can’t help but remember during the beginning of the war in iraq how they were showing on the news how there are basically 2 groups of people in Iraq, the kurds and shi’ites. Both are muslim, but they kill each other by the hundreds of thousands because one believes that the descendants of Muhammad (or maybe it was someone else, I forget, someone correct me here) should be in charge of the Islam faith and the others don’t. 2 groups that believe in the same religion, just different denominations and they kill each other. America has people of EVERY religion, race, belief, and heritage on the planet. It’s hard to get people that differ so much to live together and not have some murders. Then if you factor in the drug shootings we have (our government can’t do much more to stop drugs than sticking a cop on every corner and having a shoot to kill first and ask questions later policy). Then you’ve got to factor in our border. We’ve got a fairly large border with Canada and Mexico, and it’d be hard to keep illegal guns from coming in over that. We can’t keep drugs and people out, what makes you think we could keep guns out? I’d much rather have it how it is now where people who want to use guns for hunting and defense can have them, while all the crazies do, than have it so all the crazies still have guns, but no one who wants them for defense or hunting can have them.

46

*Originally posted by kirupa *
**Playa - your avatar pic looks beautiful :love:

( see…no hate here :skull: ) **

:love: Leave it to Kirupa to tossle my toggins. :drool: Your unibro is teh uber shexi kirupa… :blush: :love:

And I’m telling you guys… America is no better than any other nation but it s no worse. I’d say we are at par with every other nation. We may have killed alot of people, but so have alot of your countries as well. Let’s just end the discussion here about this… and :love: one another… :smiley:

47

didn’t that this is explicit bush’s fault, but bush didn’t do anything working against that.

By the way: I KILLED NOBODY! THE NAZIS WERE TERRIBLE, BUT I AM NOT ONE OF THEM! you got it?
you would have any right to criticize me if I would elect nazis, but I don’t!

how many people with different race or religion I know? I have jewish friends, I have black friends, I have frient that came from vietnam named Jack, I have a lot of russian friends, I had a girlfriend from the philipines once, I know people from turky, and even one from Iraq!
We have a close border to russia, and eastern countries, and we even got open boarders. There are russian mafia, and things like that.
We have also groups of people that want to kill each other, but it’s a lot harder in germany to get a gun than in america (as far as I know)
We united with eastern germany, which brought a lot of debts to the united germany (the ddr was almost bankrupt)
You really can not say we would have no problems over here.

But I don’t think bombing those who are against you is the right way, and I don’t think that giving away guns as if they were toy is also not the right way.

48

America is no better than any other nation but it s no worse

that’s what I am trying to say. Americans are not better than anyone in the world (they are not worse too)
you didn’t do anything to become american, and I didn’t do anything to become german.
But the behavior of the government, and some american people is wrong

49

as can be said for anywhere almost…

Rev

50

in response to BlueLine

Both are muslim, but they kill each other by the hundreds of thousands because one believes that the descendants of Muhammad (or maybe it was someone else, I forget, someone correct me here) should be in charge of the Islam faith and the others don’t. 2 groups that believe in the same religion, just different denominations and they kill each other.

err ok i fear you are forgetting the intense poverty and fact that for the last 400 years nearly the west has crapped all over the whole region, as well as many other factors also as i believe was mentioned many times it is pointless to compare a democratic western nation with a 3rd world country or dictatorship.

Then if you factor in the drug shootings we have (our government can’t do much more to stop drugs than sticking a cop on every corner and having a shoot to kill first and ask questions later policy). Then you’ve got to factor in our border. We’ve got a fairly large border with Canada and Mexico, and it’d be hard to keep illegal guns from coming in over that.

perhaps if the CIA stopped dealing drugs with the south american cartels it would help huh… and perhaps if the UK forces in afghanistan charged with reducing poppy growth had done their job rather than doubling the yield that might help to.

in response to MARZ

Theoretically, nobody from Europe can even remotely remark upon an American for being the way we he / she is because we derived from Europe to begin with… And from what I remember, we were escaping a tyranny begun by the king and the church of the time being.

As for guns, I’ve always questioned what the crime would be like if we didn’t have guns. But ask this question… How many nations out there would even want to try and invade America?! I can almost guarantee to you that no nation out there is stupid enough to invade America by land. Because every one of us will be standing there holding guns. Men and Women both, defending our country and not running away. Yeah, there are some loonies out there who shouldn’t be holding a gun in the first place, but it is not for us to decide on limiting the life of a person as none of us are any superior than any other human in this world…

This is exactly the rhetoric which makes you different to other countries in the west…your love for yourselves and inability to see ANY wrong in your country is scary…seriously

And Guns provide power and security as history shows right :sure:
Check the history books man nothing is forever…and when the s**t hits the fan in the US, which one day it inevetably will thats gonna be one dangerous and very bloody revolution.

And as for not limiting freedoms then u must be ok with allowing…
bestiality, incest, child sex, legal hard drugs, etc etc

51

If our Army ever turned on us, we would have a rifle behind every blade of grass and pick them off till they stopped coming. The Armed Phorces would lay down their arms and quit under such circumstances very quickly.

not that im suggesting its gonna happen , but IF it did i dont think any amount of people with or without rifles can repel apache strike helicopters , cruise missiles, gas, chemical weapons, biological weapons and the plethora of other equiptment.

Also phil note if you read up on the US plans they already know that US troops would basically never fight their own people, which is why they are training NATO army/military police made from troops from other countries under US army rule… nice way round that one huh

52

hehee, reminds me of this iraqi farmer with a shot gun, and ne Iraqi news told, he shot down an american helicopter with that :stuck_out_tongue:

first of all: even if they could: a lot of those people with gunsw would be too afraid to do anything
2nd.: those that would not give up would be killed, before they would even see the enermie.

I guess you need the weapons as a defense, so that the english king can’t harm you :wink: (think of the simpsons)

53

First off… Phil makes a very valid point.

Secondly, it’s Marz not MARZ :to:

Third : Where did I state that I don’t see wrong in my own country… Have you not even read half of what I said in these threads alone… I for one believe that 9-11 was staged by my own government and I for one believe that Bush is a sadictic twat… But at the same time, I believe that saying that the people defending my country is doing so unjustly is also wrong. For dying over a war that means nothing is like dying in the middle of a Antartica, it just doesn’t matter… So I still look up to the guys dying for my own country. it’s the patriotism that I have for my country… And If you don’t do the same thing for your own **** country, then you my friend… SHould not be living there…

I agree that we all should not be bigots and I try not to exclaim myself as one… I think I stated that with what I said above in this statement…

And I’m telling you guys… America is no better than any other nation but it s no worse. I’d say we are at par with every other nation. We may have killed alot of people, but so have alot of your countries as well. Let’s just end the discussion here about this… and :love: one another… :smiley:

And here is where my thoughts will desist.

54

fair point but i disagree as i said (maybe in another post) all the western countries are just as bad but the US just always goes that extra mile…like buying the tests done on its own soldiers and jews for cash after WW2 for instance, and setting up various hideous genocidal maniacs in countries as leaders to later disown and berate them to bolster their own image.

U are a very powerful country therefor your actions have very powerful consequences

with great power comes great responibilty.

55

group hugging too, I am too tired to do flame anymore (it’s 4:40 in germany, and I just came home, and needed to calm down after a party)