Ghosts

Photographic evidence is proof, and you can’t state that it isn’t.

Some images may be fake, some may not. How do you know the difference? Because it can’t be scientifically proven?

That’s an erroneous statement, and one that sets itself up for potential failure. The history of science and man is wrought with concepts once unproveable being proven. The roundness of the earth. The revolving around the sun of the planets. Man being able to fly with the aid of aircraft. The existance of the Atom. The neutron. The presence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy in every facet of our lives.

The point is, what can’t be proven today may be proven tomorrow as our capabilities expand.

To bring it all back together - there are numerous paranormal investigators who consider rods to be evidence of ghosts. Others think it is proof of aliens. There is photographic and video evidence of rods. As well as orbs. Evidence which cannot be explained or attributed to anything currently known to man.

It’s up to you to decide if you want to believe the proof that’s available. A photograph that can’t be explained as a camera trick or a fake can easily be cited as proof. It’s not at al in the same realm of Christian’s validating the existance of God via the Bible.

:pope:

dude, the evidence presented is kinda dodgy…

okay, let me put it this way…

Show me somewhere… a credited scientist has proof, or even a photo which hasn’t been debunked yet, of an alien, or a ghost. Not a “rod,” not a glimmer where there shouldn’t be one, not a recording of a ghost, or any other of the “evidence” that has been around Carnivals for the last 100 years, and I will admit I’m wrong.

From my experience, paranormal investigators are right up there with Jon Edwards and his ability to talk to the deceased.

I’m not saying there isn’t a possibility of it happening, but I don’t think that ghosts actually exist.

Rev

Rev
i guess its now we to decide where we belive or dont belive in ghots or ufo!!!
people who saw do belive and people like us who dint still feel its fake…
about the image and photo graphs and there proof…some r real and some r not …it cos there are many people who want to gain attantion but just giving fake image and in that manner the reall image r been negleted.
and y r’nt there any significant explaining cos u dont hunt for ghots…where u dont know when and where u can get them…so it not that easy to catch them on camera.

if u see a ghot one day u will aso have the same answers as that of bleutuna
right
BYE

I’m with Rev. I don’t believe that ghosts/spirits exist. I a lot of these places that are supposedly “haunted” you will find a perfectly logical explanation for all the sightings.

Changes in altitude may cause people to see things.

Food, drugs, sickness.

Hot/cold spots that are picked up by infrared/heat sensor technology that “ghost-hunters” user can be caused by draughts, pipes/plumbing… etc etc etc…

There is always proof that debunks these things as well, you just need to look hard enough to find it.

**About the alien thing. I do believe that life exists outside our Solar System. I do not believe that they have contacted us, nor have the capabilities to reach us.

now prove it to me that there r no ghots and spirits exits.
as u want us to prove that there r???

it as i said …those who see belive it those u dont…either fake it or deny it…

It is extremely difficult to prove a negative.

I suggest your last statement is illogical…

Rev

just going back to the alien issue…

here is an interesting article worth reading, i still haven’t read it all but it is very long…

link:
http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.com/maynard.html

who knows whether the information provided is true or not, still a good read though :slight_smile:

Ok… well I’m not going to argue, I’m not going to fight, but I will make a couple of points here.

Photographic evidence is proof, and you can’t state that it isn’t.

it is evidence, but it’s not scientific evidence in any way shape or form. If you think it is, you need to look back into some of your highschool science books. Look for the definition of “proof”, “theory”, and “evidence” as it relates to science. Photographs do not cut it.

Some images may be fake, some may not. How do you know the difference? Because it can’t be scientifically proven?

actually most photo’s can be proven to have not been faked. That doesn’t really mean that they are real… it can still be errors on the film, or in developement that cause problems as well, but we can with something like 90+% certainty discern a photo which is faked. In this day of computer technology, it has actually become less and less easy to fake things to the quality level that is required to fool professional film lab techs.

That’s an erroneous statement, and one that sets itself up for potential failure. The history of science and man is wrought with concepts once unproveable being proven. The roundness of the earth. The revolving around the sun of the planets. Man being able to fly with the aid of aircraft. The existance of the Atom. The neutron. The presence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy in every facet of our lives.

The point is, what can’t be proven today may be proven tomorrow as our capabilities expand.

To bring it all back together - there are numerous paranormal investigators who consider rods to be evidence of ghosts. Others think it is proof of aliens. There is photographic and video evidence of rods. As well as orbs. Evidence which cannot be explained or attributed to anything currently known to man.

In all of your sighted cases, we are looking at a situation where some one has a theory which is the simplest answer possible for the technology of the day, and which is disproven by new information which was unavailiable. Since photographs cannot be reproduced, rendering the same result, by different individuals, there is no experiment which can use a photograph as evidence for scientific inquiry. Without that, the entire premise of attempts to proof such existance with photographic evidence, is useless to science.

It’s up to you to decide if you want to believe the proof that’s available. A photograph that can’t be explained as a camera trick or a fake can easily be cited as proof. It’s not at al in the same realm of Christian’s validating the existance of God via the Bible.

I’ll agree that a photo is more valid than the bible as a proof of something (at least to you and I), however, it’s validity, as I’ve hopefuly shown, is still worthless as far as a “proof” is concerned. Photographic evidence should be used as a launching ground for other inquiry… but should never be used by itself as a proof of anything.
Oh… and just for the record. How do you know it’s not fake? Because someone else said so, or because you have examined the film in a lab and through technical experience, have found it to be non fake? There’s a big difference. Individual’s have bias’ and can be manipulated into giving false data. Unless the experiment can be reproduced by a scientist who is not connected in any way to the author of the photo, again, it’s not very valid.

now prove it to me that there r no ghots and spirits exits.
as u want us to prove that there r???
it as i said …those who see belive it those u dont…either fake it or deny it…

please read this blue… this post was made at the beginning of this thread.

!!!READ BEFORE YOU POST!!!
Ok folks, This is going to be a clean, college level discussion.

I guerenty that in college you will get a verbal smack in the head for this type of response. The quote goes something like “those with outrageous claims, must have outrageous proof.” The “fact” of spiritual existance is NOT the simplest of all possible answers. The simplest possible answer doesn’t have to be proofed, it simply is the basis from which we start scientific inquiry. When a theory comes along which contradicts the simplest possible answer, then the person making the theory must provide proof. There is NOTHING in science which says that those defending the status quo must provide proof of anything.

I dint get the Mean out of ur post…
u contradict your own post…
still thankx and havea nice day

BYE

Please explain cool. I can’t find any contradictions there. If there is, it’s mispoken and will be happy to elaborate.

as for my opinion, I believe in spiritual existance. I need not have any proof which I can provide for others as to why that is the case. I do have enough proof for myself. Or at the very least to allow myself to believe that I am sane, rational, and have experienced the spiritual.

I cannot say that spiritual existance is a “fact” without being ignorant to the meaning of the word. A fact, according to college level discussion (which is the basis of this thread and section of kirupaforum) is something which is true. Truth may only be established through theory, and a lack of falsification for that theory. A theory consists of a premise, and an experiment that may return a false response, but which doesn’t. The experiment must be reproduceble by others who can be established as non bias and or not connected with the person who developed said theory.
That is, if not verbatum, a very close representation of the definition of fact as it pertains to “proof”, “premise”, and “theory”.

There is no proof, as so far brought to light, for the existance of aliens or ghosts which curently meets that criteria. It’s a sad but true fact.

I don’t care that the government secrets all this stuff away from the public, as some believe. That’s terrible, but hey, the best breakthroughs in theory usually ended up with someone exicuted. I’d say if the worst thing you have to contend with is censorship, be happy.:slight_smile:

I believe in aliens, but not in ghosts. Ghost are the result of someones paranoid mind.

I think a few million people should go marching down/up to Area 51 and walk straight through the gates and go scope out what is really there. Sure the brave ones at the front of the line would probably get gunned down but it’s all for the truth! :beam: :stuck_out_tongue:

Who’s with me? :slight_smile:

*Originally posted by cool blue *
**I dint get the Mean out of ur post…
u contradict your own post…
still thankx and havea nice day

BYE **

1-- If you aren’t going to post something legible don’t post at all. Use proper punctuation, capitalization, and grammar please. This is a discussion forum, not a chat room.

2-- Sarcasm will not be tolerated either. There is not reason to say “Thanx have a nice day”

3-- You told me to prove to you that it doesn’t exist. No. I can’t. But you can’t prove to me that they do exist. Thats the point. I can use the same evidence to disput that you use to reinforce. A discussion of this type is very similar to a religious discussion… its not one that either side can win, or prove to the other… so again, your statements are immature and unwarranted.

Please think before you post and post more than 3 line responses. This is a debate/discussion so write what you think, but make it so that its clear what you are trying to say. Use proper format or don’t post here at all. Thank you.

*Originally posted by TOOL *
**I think a few million people should go marching down/up to Area 51 and walk straight through the gates and go scope out what is really there. Sure the brave ones at the front of the line would probably get gunned down but it’s all for the truth! :beam: :stuck_out_tongue:

Who’s with me? :slight_smile: **

Thats assuming Area 51 exists. :wink: But hey, if you find it, I will gladly walk up to the front gate and poke a soldier in the eye. :stuck_out_tongue:

People are going to believe whatever they want to believe. I believed in aliens and ghosts for the longest time, but after years of in depth thought and analyzing the world around me, it became clear to me that people will see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and believe whatever it is that makes them feel better.

*Originally posted by Voetsjoeba *
**I believe in aliens, but not in ghosts. Ghost are the result of someones paranoid mind. **

lol, I think many things are the results of a paranoid mind.

Actually, my friend swears up and down that he was abducted by aliens, but that night he was on shrooms.

I think people just want to believe that there is more out there. They want to believe that there is a race out there more advanced than us, without the war, the hate, the pain, the famine, the killing. Taking that belief, people will twist words around until it fits their ideals. A shooting star will turn into a flying sauser. A lizards transforms into an alien. The reflection of the sun of a broken picture frame becomes your dead aunt Martha.

Area 51 is an air force base where state of the art planes are designed, built, and tested. It is quite simple to find and there are no aliens there.

well… you can’t prove there are no aliens there. :wink:

lol

ok… really guys… I’m done here… i just wanted to state what a fact is in my book. (again)

If any mod wants to lock or delete this thread, you are more then welcome to.

you opened this can o’ worms…

Rev