@#%$ I hate the prices of all this loverly software

I can see why people try and get free versions of all the software like Swift, Flash etc and i dont think it is right, coz it is stealing\r\rBUT\r\rim 15, how am i supposed to afford Flash and Swift, my parents would laugh me out of the house if i asked them for a £50 pocket money raise, and even with that it would take me a while to afford flash. \r\rI really love making web pages and animating anything but it aint very easy for young people to get started. \r\rI ended up getting Flash of a friend in university, but i cant afford swift which i think looks lovely :slight_smile: \r\rAnyway, You must be interested in this subject if you have listened to me moan for this long…\r\r\r\rSO LEMEE HEAR WHAT YA THINK

Tough subject, especially since we’re not supposed to say anything about what you’re expecting us to say, that is to say ripping the software. See, I don’t want to be banned, but here’s my real opinion : if you really can’t afford it, if there’s no chance at all you can buy the software before Flash 9 is out, and if you’re doing zero profit with your animations, I think that it’s not as bad as that. But it’s still illegal, of course. I think that most important thing is that you don’t make money with it.\rTalking about money, does anybody know how much is going to cost Flash 6 ???\r\rpom

Ditto… and I don’t think that you’ll be banned for saying so. If you make money from the program buy it.\r\roh yeah… and don’t ask for copies from the Kirupa.com message boards. :slight_smile:

Of course you won’t be banned for asking this question :slight_smile: Like upuaut said, just don’t ask for it on the message boards! \r\rI was able to buy the software I use because of the freelance work I do for clients. A few years ago before I could buy the program, I used the 30 day trials. On the 29th day or so, I’d format my computer and re-install all the software again. That way, I was never using any cracked or hacked or stolen software. I’m still proud of that feat lol!\r\rCheers,\rkirupa

Well I guess in answer to your question then, basically if you cannot afford it then you should not have it. People are going to hate me for saying that but you are only 15 and you have plenty of time in your life to use these programs.\r\rWhy not wait until you can afford. People are going to hate me for saying it but in my opinion just because you can’t afford it doesn’t automatically give you a right to use it whether it’s for profit or fun.\r

Why would we hate you?\r\rhate is a pretty strong word… and there are very very few people that I hate in life.\r\rOn the other hand, I do believe that you are wrong… or rather Macromedia would disagree with this, behind closed doors.\r

basically if you cannot afford it then you should not have it
\r\rMy father is an old school capitalist, and a programmer for a subsideary of Union Carbide Corp. My step dad is a first generation imigrant utopian idealist, ex-IBM programmer. I’ve pretty much heard every arguement there is to hear on the matter of software ownership and hacking laws.\rThrough experiences with the both of them, my own little dabbling in the programming feild, and the start up of my own company, I’ve come to one very simple conclussion:\rThese companies do not care one bit about the small time hackers. People who find ways of using the program are not the problem… in fact, they are the ones who MAKE the profit margin attainable.\rWhat Macromedia and the other companies want to avoid is people breaking a program apart and then distributing it to everyone, and or selling it for profit, or making a profit with media produced using those programs.

I know what you mean. The price is a bit high for a 15 year old. Im 16 and i was checking out all about flash but didnt have money to buy it. Then my uncle bought flash 5 for me for christmas and I was able to use this wonderful program.\r\rPeacE\r-BoB

I am just putting forward the right attitude I think. Maybe most of the companies don’t mind us copying software but I can guarantee Microsoft do. I wonder if you are right about Macromedia and I can only guess. I am lucky I can afford the software and I must admit I don’t know what I would do if I couldn’t.\r\rI am not a capitalist (maybe closer to socialism) but I don’t like the idea of people stealing for equity.\r\rDOn’t know why, I just don’t.

I have many socialistic tendencies myself… :slight_smile: also a capitolist. I’m still not convinced that those two are mutulaly opposed to each other…\r\rI’m not sure I agree with you concerning Microsoft. I think that most companies have the front door policy they do about hacking because they have to, for the sake of business… I’d love to know how many individuals (not companies) have been busted in the last 10 years for illegal copies of Windows. Those are pretty much a dime a dozen. I doubt you would find many.\r\rehh… either way you are correct in that you have the right attitude concerning the situation. My best advice is simply to learn what you can, and buy these things as soon as possible.\r\rThe flip side is this. If Upuaut is wrong, and Macromedia does go after someone, it’s not going to be prison time… they are going to take away your right to use that software forever. Imagine never being able to “Flash” again… pretty scary thought in my book.

they would take away your rights forever…it would be something hard to enforce. The way I see it is that maybe they would make you buy it if you hadn’t already. And then maybe fine you.\r\rHard to stop you ever using it again but I guess they could try that too.\r\rI will buy it until I can no longer afford it then see what happens.

lol… you’re correct in that this is very hard to enforce. I think ultimately that’s why the little guys are not the ones they go after.\r\rFor a corp though…it’s much easier to pull an audit. I can only imagine the hell we would go through here if Microsoft came in and told us to clear Windows off of all of our machines. For a corp it would be cripling.\r\rI have heard of it happening though… not to individuals… just to corps.

woo i started this subject off just to moan a little ya know.\rbut i noticed that upuat you are one clever guy in arguments, never going strongly for one side but always making good, to the point questions.\rvery niice.\ranyway im takin kirupas advice and gettin hold of a 30 day swift trial. \r\rand jus coz im “little” dont mean i cant learn flash. it jus means i have to be more imaginative in how i get hold of it.\r\rand also, if i start early, by the time im upaut’s age i am gonna be one good flasher.\r\rthanks people\r\rcya

products shouldnt be priced high, but if u can afford it buy it if u really want it and r broke [me] crack it…\ri dont believe u should go around cracking every prog u get your hands on the trial of it!\rbut prices are ridiculous today…:frowning:

@ Macromedia, behind closed doors, I think they speak much in the way upuy and Ilyas said. Lets face it; All the stolen software that people use, bring in Macromedia huge, uncountable amounts of cash, so why would they stop it? How does it make them money you ask? \r\r1. It helps give their product pre-eminence in the web design world. For every person who goes to a site has to have the flash player, this first amounts to huge name recognition. Secondly, they know that for every 10 or whatever number of cracked copies there are, it will add up to one more sale down the road. How? Most people don’t like using cracked software, most people have consciences. Secondly, those who don’t listen to their conscience or haven’t heard from it for a long while still fear the law. \r\r2. It leads to development and technologies and uses they never imagined thus creating a very new market and desire for their product.\r\r3. When someone who has a crack copy of flash gets better and better to the point they get hired at a company that doesn’t own a single flash license, it forces that company to buy a copy.\r\r4. Many companies will not have Flash on their intranet or internet websites because they will then need to increase payroll for another person to do something on their intranet or internet. Those days are closing behind us all rather quickly and hacked copies is only one of the reasons, but no doubt has been a major plus.\r\r5. Internet Software is a dime a dozen and Macromedia knew this before they unveiled this product. But they knew because of it’s versatility and ease of use (ya right) that they needed to see flash on more and more sites ASAP. This was accomplished through hacks and cracks and stolen software. It’s everywhere now. And had it not been for stolen copies and people that use this to develop their skills and enlarge the support base for this product this would have never happened. The support base is huge and growing daily. Soon companies will be forced to have flash websites, and this through customer desire. \r\rPersonally, I have purchased all the software I have, or my roommate has. But these facts still remain, the facts above. And they know it. The same exact strategy was used by Bill Gates, allowing his software on anyones computer because somewhere down the road it would lead to increased sales and pre-eminence and world domination. Love those last two words. But it’s true. Regardless of these things however, EZ boards will shut someone down in a second if they don’t police their boards to keep these things from happening. Hence, kirupas iron fisted policy. These are the policies that are not behind closed doors, also grown out of fear by Macromedia and Microsoft by sites that allow file sharing, where one can phind almost any software they set their hearts desire upon, if they only know how to spell it and use the search function. It’s truly amazing all the software that goes through file sharing servers. Amazing. The Times did an article on it a while back and estimated a single days worth of net-vacuuming on bearshare.com. The total estimate? 31,000 full length programs estimated @ over 56 million dollars! In one day @ bearshare alone! And theres many, many more programs like it out there. Just imagine it…A revolution is taking place and we are all in the center of it. Kind of neat isn’t it? So if anyone made it through all of that, and knows me remotely, knows there is something unexpected coming up. And here it is; (Riddle me this, Batman)\r Whats the Greatest Nation on Earth? \rThink about it for a while, for it is a trick question, the answer which will befuddle your mental labors, the answer is simple, easy, yet twisted and demented, and as a matter of phact, and much to Eyzebergs dismay, right along the theme of the article which I have just written. The answer is interwoven between every sentence and is staring you blankly in the phace. [The ONLY hint that will be given] So; Whats the Greatest Nation on Earth? Any takers?\r\rpj (undergoing emoticon abuse evaluation & counseling from gingerhippy)\r:cool:

Are there no ‘student’ versions of these programs? When I was learning WordPerfect, I bought the ‘Academic’ version at the campus bookstore for about $8 or $10.\r

There are. I don’t know where to get them, but I’ve seen acidemic versions of Flash 5.0 on E-bay.\r\rand by the way that is the best place to pick up a copy of the software if you really can’t aford it. Though it’s hard to find a copy that hasn’t been registered, if your just looking to legaly own it, many many many copies are on sale at the auctions.

On the 29th day or so, I’d format my computer and re-install all the software again.
~ Kirupa\r\rrofl what a dedicated man… i did that too until i learned a bit of program scripting and made my own trial programs last a bit longer… =]\r\rrhino3d was re-installed on my PC twenty times before i got sick of formatting and started learning how to do ** it** myself… \r\rim interrested in makign webpages and i think you all know i have the art talent… i will be back soon when i get that new video card to ask ya all some stupid newbie questions. =]\r\rBTW kirupa… i looked in the stores today for yer book… couldn’t find it anywhere.

I believe that those who cannot afford these wonderful technologies and software are somehow hindered from releasing their creative ouput by not being able to buy anything because they are 1.Children 2.No money\rSo in a world full of artistic imaginative people we lack full content by hindering full access to such materials. ALthough If i personally wrote the progam I would like to make a profit also but I also believe that those who made such programs may have stolen once or twice or even more in thier lifetime. Anyways who can define stealing if its just borrowing the tech"knowlodgy"? By the way I own over 5000 dollars full of “borrowed software” Even if we are 15,16,17 dont you think it wise that we get a head start into something that we like that way we can even surpase those who may be considered our sensei’s ?? Even if we cant afford it doesnt GIVE us a right to have it for free but we cant help but to in human nature try and explore these facits, I for one, believe we should start making software more of a socialistic environment lol except for stuff you make for a profit. For fun make it free source!

It really depends upon your version of society.\rLet me ask you this. If everyone in the world were just to “borrow” everything without asking permission… where would this world be right now?\rIf we were tribesmen, located in small tight nit groups it probebly wouldn’t be an issue at all. Most tribal cultures have a very communistic belief structure… we would not have these computers and dvd players, vaccines, cars, etc.\rI kind of like things the way they are. Currently pirated software is illegal, but if one were to take the time to learn how, one could find ANY program they wanted online.\rI think that my earily advice on this is the best you’re going to find.\rLearn programs. If you start making a profit off of the program, then buy it… not because you owe it to the company, but because you want the company to make more cool stuff.

dont you think that the world was raised in beleiving that the only way to live is by turning a profit? Think about this as children we fear nothing because we have not yet LEARNED what is scary or what is right or wrong these are all learned attributes but if we were raised beleiving to commit to society rather than greedily composing for the rich or those who can afford where do you think our society woud be? Dont tell me it wouldnt work we dont know that…If you say it wont its because you, yourself have learned that it is to be “this way” and no other. “The strong shall survive” this comes to mind in a society such as ours.