This is a serious question, I would like to know, what most people out there think is more important…
Individual proseperity, or ability to acheive potential, and individual reson and decision. And as a result of individual proseperty the goverment should prosper.
or
National Prosperity, and things should be done first for the national as whole. And the National intrest should be meet first and the nation freedom and proseperity everything else should participate with the nation. And as a result the idividuals should prosper along witht the nation.
Well no , it is relavent.
Because you can clearly chose whats more important. And this is all based on society and form of goverment which holds one or the other in favor. Sure you can have something with a little bit of both but individuality or Nation can clearly be defined for example:
A Fashist country is a National Country, which regards the national intrest first, and everything must be done for the nation.
while
A Classic Liberal country will hold individuals, and individual freedom at the top of their list.
MMhhh I wont vote because I know we need both of these.
Although Americans might say they are patriotic the US is a country ruled by money and having material possessions, thus making it a liberal (more individual country).
On the other hand communist countries always put the nation forward, and the human being is not being viewed as an individual but as a contribution…
And I’d rather be in the middle of these two choices…
I’d also like to reitterate what Russianbeer said. This question is FAR from a question of liberal vers conservative.
To be liberal, is to be open to new ideas. To be conservative is to utilize the old ideas that have always worked. An ideal situation is always to have both. Any individual or nation which only holds to liberal or conservative stances is doomed to failure.
An example of a conservative state is Islam. Communism is not an example of a liberal or conservative state… it’s a communal state.
. . .Just to make sure people aren’t confusing those terms.
Well, thats true… but i didnt put a middle answer in the poll because it would be too easy for people to answer then, without giving that much though. I wanted to see if people would really not mind a fashist goverment, and appernatly about 8 wouldnt. I know its a bit unfair to say that for sure, but its more of an assumption, or an average…
But you guys made one mistake, communist countries, arent Nationalistic, they are Socialistic, it means they are for the individual. Thats why During WW2 Germans hated the Russians (Ivan’s) Because they hated the russian bolsheviks. I mean alot of them just hated russians, but that was one more reason to go after the communists. Sure some comunists coutries put the nation forward, but they arent communist no more. Its just a title but its not communism.
There should be an option for a “both” category, but after reading the explanations I will have to reluctantly choose Nation (with Nation & Individual) being my primary choice. From my point of view, I don’t think one can have individual liberty without order. In order for there to be…order, institutions will need to be created to enforce the rules. As long as individuals care for others more than they do about themselves, the nation will/should be the more dominant force.
After all, in order for us all to be living in a society governed by rules and law, we all had to give up our rights. With the exception of the unalienable rights nature has endowed us with, we will, from my point of view, considered more powerful than the nation.
I think America is the heck patriotic and it really bugs me. I hate it when people look up to their flag and stuff like that.
I guess it is because I’m from Germany. I really wonder sometimes why Americans are allowed to be really really proud of their country(even when there is not such a big reason for) and we are not allowed to show our proudness. I mean I wouldn’t do it anyway.
I don’t know. I think I am more liberal, because I don’t like to see that the whole world is drifting to the right…
A large part of it is cultural. Americans have been, for the most part, very patriotic. I’m not sure why are linking patriotism with leaning toward the right. I would guess a large portion of this country, both liberals and conservatives, are very patriotic. Its nice to see people in the US or anywhere show respect for something other than themselves.
Overall, our general welfare is being well protected. Even with our temporary slowdown in the economy, our economy is still growing (albeit a slower rate). Many technological innovations are made here, etc. When people are satisfied with their surroundings, they will be more patriotic. Hence during military success polls show the citizens more satisfied than normal.
Besides, we are provided a lot of information and such to be proud about. Everything from computer games to sports to the colors of many of our corporations sport the US flag or US colors or US related information =)
Well, i think patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.
I mean: If I dont support the soldeirs, alot of people label me unpatriotic? And sometimes patriotic goes pretty far.
Personally , i dont feel patriotic for any country… Beause I lived in many diffrent countries and while belief in your country is good, we should not forget that we live in a world, that is getting smaller everyday. We cant isolate ourselves anymore. And thats why I beleive sometimes it feels to me, some people are saying “God bless America, and to hell with the rest of the world!” I mean thats how it feels to me.
Back to the topic: I beleive that the individual should always be more important. While a strong goverment is good, the individual should always be stronger. Because in a country where the individual is important , you can truly be free.
But you guys made one mistake, communist countries, arent Nationalistic, they are Socialistic, it means they are for the individual. Thats why During WW2 Germans hated the Russians (Ivan’s) Because they hated the russian bolsheviks. I mean alot of them just hated russians, but that was one more reason to go after the communists. Sure some comunists coutries put the nation forward, but they arent communist no more. Its just a title but its not communism.
I disagree. Communism is about the “community” first, individual second. You’re job in a communist society is whatever the society as a whole needs you to do. That’s not individualistic at all, it’s a completely Nationalistic system. Produce what you can, take what you need, is also hardly an individualistic mantra.
Most societies which have labeled themselves communistic, were actually for the individual… as long as that individual was at the top of the pyramidical “food chain”, and “for the nation” in all other cases. I think that for the most part, the communist ideal is Nationalistic, and the fascist ideal is individualistic, so far as the elete is concerned, and Nationalistic for all other individuals. The closest thing to a society based on individual rights is the US. Since each individual has a vote (for a representative) and since each individual may succeed so long as they find their marketing nitch, it turns out that the US is very much an individual driven state.
I voted that the society is more important than the individual because I believe in the simple statement that “the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one.”
I didn’t really got your point with patriotism… It has not that much to do with economy in my opinion.
Overall, our general welfare is being well protected.
I can really tell you that the US welfare and social system is a pain compared to the german. Really…
David is right with communism. Everyone works for the Government and get’s payed the same. Pretty boring
I think that the strong individual forms the democracy. When the group is the main idea, then u don’t really have different opinions, points of views and that stuff.
David is right with communism. Everyone works for the Government and get’s payed the same. Pretty boring
I know you didn’t mean to, but you seem to paint me as anti communistic with this statement, or that I agree it’s boring. That I do not. I am a proponant to communism and always have been. It’s not my fault that no one else is strong enough moraly to handle the only ethicaly sound method of society to be devised thus far. Nor is it my fault that people must be entertained by the concept of having more than another person. I personaly, am entertained by producing art, literature (I wish), and humor. These things are all alowable in a communist state, AND end up being more easily worked on due to less work time all around. Being richer than my neighbor… no that doesn’t entertain me at all. I find the concept of that being entertaining to be rather sick and inhumain.
Like I said… I didn’t think you were intending to paint me any particular way. It was just they way your statement came across to me that made me reply.
I’m sorry if it was kinda offensive to you.
I just think that communism is not working out as it should. The idea is defenitly really smart and it sounds good. But as you see on Russia, I won’t work out as it should be.
I wasn’t really serious when I said that it is boring, but when I think of communism, then I don’t think about a higher middle class society, what I would like to be in, but a lower middle class which is pretty poor. Then you wouldn’t be able to do nice Flash Stuff on your (own) pc anymore, probably.
But as I already stated, I don’t really like those extremes…
I doubt that’s true. Communism never occured in Russia so it cannot be any benchmark of the possible success of the system. The only time true communist societies have failed, as far as I’ve found, is when other cultures come in and butcher them.
As it stands, you may think that Ahmesh life is boring, but that is only from your perception. Many of us would find their life to be very satisfying.
oh and btw, don’t worry about it. I’m insulted by a lot of things. I don’t hold that against people. The insult was not intended, which is what is relivant to me.
As I’ve always stated… I’m into democracy more than communism. Currently the popular opinion is against that particular social system. All I can do is try to show how that popular opinion is skewed. I cannot however, expect other people to believe in my ethics. Teaching ethics to a whole world takes a lot of time. Look at Jesus. He’s been working at it for 2000 years and can hardly be seen as successful in his endevor. (no I’m not comparing myself to Jesus. I can’t do that walk on water thing.)
Yeah, communism might be boring when everone gets paid the same but thats not always too bad.
That means people can honestly do what they want, and it wont affect what they get paid…
But going to contries, even though Russia was never truly communist, it was a form of it (Strong central goverment) It worked a ALOT better that what democracy is doing now! Because the average person was happier under communism than democracy… (dont get the idea that I am a die-hard communist or communist at all in that matter)
But a intresting fact, even Cuba, being a country ISOLATED by the states and many countries highly influenced by the States… well it acctualy works! Sure its not that great, but its doing very well, because things can be alot worse in cuba, alot worse.
Ive said it before and I’ll say it again, they have the best doctors in the world. They have to be doing something right.
And you’re right… there was a long period of time in Russian when a form of communism was working very well. It really wasn’t until two things happened that it failed to continue down it’s path (a path which would have ended in a Marxist Utopian ideal) a) the USA started a fear and awe campaign to demolish the Russian economy, and b) fascist minds took hold in Russia.
at least that’s how I see it.
