What is a day in reference to the Bible?

talk
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I was warned by David not to push him too far; Yet I didn’t do anything wrong;
you are being argumentative, insulting to individuals, and are certainly taking this thread far too personaly.

I’m not even going to touch upon the other stuff in your post as it is irrelivant to the conversation at hand. Again… if you continue with irrelvancies I will delete your threads without hesitation. Stick to the subject at hand. Time and the biblical interpretation of such.

Prove to me your claims; Prove to me the big bang theory, I guess the new officially sanctioned heresay of kirupaforum.com. At least it sure came across that way, yet he was only speaking for himself, right?

you asked me to prove this too… but you obviously didn’t read what I wrote.

David~

The claim that the universe always existed or was created through a big bang from which we have no previous point of reference is an accepted scientific theory. The idea that god created the universe in 6 days is not.

Where in that statement does it say that the big bang is correct, truthful, or absolute? It doesnt’ Phil. READ BEFORE YOU POST.

Phil ~

"Creation is the accepted norm David; more people believe in Creation than evolution; Thus your ‘theory of evolution’ is eztraordinary and the brden of proof therefore falls on you, thus making my opinion and theory the ‘correct’ one by default;
6 billion Chinese people would argue against that premise Phil Learn your facts.

The point is David can’t prove his opinions, and I can’t prove mine. Yet it is only ME who is being DEMANDED to produce proof of mine and jump through the peppered question hoops;

again… I ask that you ATTEMPT to prove you assertions. Proof is an illusion and we all know that perfectly well. Nothing that is text on a computer screen is proof of anything. But some people offer up possible explinations and other people point at works of fiction, and occationaly someone will offer up an experiment which might be real proof of something. As for only you…, Reverend and I regularly make Vulcan jump through hoops. READ THE FORUM BEFORE MAKING UNFOUNDED ACCUSATIONS

David has never once, in a single post proven evolution to be a fact; So, am I to assume it is off limits for him to discuss according to his new rules?
No… it’s not. I’ll discuss what I want in any thread which relates to the subject at hand. Likewise I have always said that evolution was a theory and not a fact… just as I fully realise that reality itself is a theory, and not a fact. I have however detailed the reason why scientists have used the word fact in reference to this theory in past threads. Simply put… the word fact to a scientist means something a little different than it means to the rest of us. It is a misinterpretation due to poor communication skills on the part of scientists which has led down this road where people believe evolution is a fact in a common sense of the word. I find it sad that I have to explain this again and again and again. I HAVE NEVER SAID EVOLUTION WAS FACT.

And I can’t prove creation as a fact; Does this mean the discussion is no longer allowed as David says? Because that is what hes saying;
No that’s not what it means. It means that you will be taken to accounts every time you claim that creationism is a fact, just as I would take any schmuck to accounts who claimed that evolution was a fact. I have not heard one person say that so far Phil… but hey… you don’t need proof for creationism so why should you need proof for your slander in here?

I did what their side do to the creationists; I peppered them with questions demanding they prove what they say; The very thing they continually demand of me, and the creation side; And look how quick they got upset. Is what it comes down to is faith; For either side as we have often concluded in the past. Yet for one side to demand now that the other side of ‘faith’ prove their claims, is disingenuous, and unfair; And David is wrong about evolution; It didn’t happen, and it doesn’t matter hopw many scientists he can get to say otherwise; Because as I said above, it doesn’t rely on science at all, for either side, but rather faith. and neither side can prove what they say, thus for one side to demand something which they themselves cannot produce is sheer hypocrisy and eltism.

Phil we have all taken science classes. If you want me to detail every scientific discovery which has led people to the conclusion tht the earth is older than 5000 years, or that evolution is the best example of a workable theory detailing how we came to be, you’re simply not going to get it from me. I can only do my best in such things… The ordered forum, to me, is not about having absoute proof of anything, but about being honest in one’s assertions… honest to others and honest to one’s self.

It is my opinion that you are the one upset… not myself, or Vulcan, or anyone else in here. No one other than you has railroaded this thread away from course… no one other than you is *****ing for every detail that science can provide. This thread has become a problem for you and I suggest you take your opinions elsewhere. All of these none related posts will be deleted and moved by morning I assure you. If you want to continue to complain about the ordered forum, my actions, or the opinions of management, I suggest that you take it up via private PM or Email. None of it will be tolerated here.

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I’m reminded of a Seinfeld episode.

“SERENITY NOW!”

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If I can jump in again. I think we all need to remember that we are not trying to figure out with absolute certainty what happend when humas started living on Earth. No one here can posibly know for certain because as far as I can tell, we weren’t personally there when it started. I didn’t inted for this thread to become such an intense tit-for-tat type argument. I just wanted to get ideas about what people think a day means in relation to Genesis. I am a religious person, I believe God created everything! However, I think that humans may have constructed this idea of what God is out of neccessity in explaining Him to others. Think about how you would explain God to someone 6000 years ago. Would you say God is this thing called science and proceed to teach a physics class, or would you simplify it to God is this all powerful being. He is a man type object that is light and good and all these other words people back then could comprehend?

I personally believe that God is not a humanoid, he is ALL. God is the energy in all things that bonds us together. God is all matter and God is all energy. I think each person on Earth sees God everywhere they look, just most of us fon’t see Him because we are looking for a man in a white suit. When I think about God, I see Him as a person just because that is easier to visualize. I think all mericals can be duplicated with the right information. I think science is a merical and mericals are science. I think it is a merical every time a baby is born, but we as people have become so desensitized to that merical that we think it is not one. We have let ourselves believe that doctors create babies or that parents create babies. All I know is that I have 3 kids and I have no idea how. I know what it takes to get the ball rolling, but what puts that life in? science, God, or are they one in the same?

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this is a copy from a PM I sent to Vulcan, and I think it explains best how I feel. Very similar to your thinking lizard

I mentioned that I was an agnostic before… the deal with this is very simple. The Universe is god. It has always existed, and always will exist, in one form or another. It has no undue intelligence, and I place no expectations upon it’s actions other than those which I can garner through scientific experimentation, and phylosophical discussion. I pray to the cosmos, but I expect that my prays will not be heard. My prayers are a journal of thoughts, meditations, wishes to be fulfilled, and pains to be remembered. I do honor to those I respect, and I pay no heed to the morons whom I do not. I have little respect for the current rules of our society, but I respect many rules of society. Society and the unit is the ultimate goal of god for man. Man was made to socialize, to war, to love, to gather and discuss. Man shares in the labor with his fellow man and gains the rewards of that unity. Companionship, medical insurance, protection, lower priced goods and better comforts. Man owes each of his fellow men a certain due based upon the actions of that man towards the group.

This is God

I do not claim to be right… just to have an image of god which works for me.

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I believe that the earth was created in 6 days period. If God is omnipotent as the Bible says that he is, then there is no reason to believe that He couldn’t do it in just 6 of our days. Creation was used by God as a pattern for man. God didn’t rest because He was tired, the word rest also means to stop an action.

Also, if you read in Genesis, it wasn’t until the flood that man started eating meat. Before that, men and animals ate plants. This is talked about in Genesis 1 when God gives man the herbs for “meat”.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing [size=1][color=#800080]F7[/color][/size] seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, [url=“http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ge+1&version=kjv&showtools=0#F8”][size=1][color=#800080]F8[/color][/size] I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Then, in Genesis 8, after the flood:

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

This is also referenced in Isaiah when he prophesies that things will return to the way they were and the lion lies down with the lamb and children play with vipers and are unharmed.

This would mean that dinosaurs would not eat man and that they could live together somewhat peacefully…

As far as time is concerned, God is outside of time (that’s one of the perks of being eternal) and would obviously look at things differently. He wouldn’t have the press of being confined to a certain amount of time to accomplish things in like we are…

In the context of Psalm 90, verse 4 points more to the eternalness of God than how He views one day. And in 2 Peter 3, Peter is talking about the past, present and future, and how God has kept His promise to man since the beginning of time and how He will continue to keep it. I don’t know that it explains how God sees one day as a thousand years…but this is just my view…:slight_smile:

BTW, here’s something that I’ve always thought about:

The flood lasted for a year and the water covered the highest mountains (which I would think would be even taller than they are today). The amount of pressure would have been enormous at the bottom. This would be where the sand and everything would settle after the burting of the rivers under the earth (see Genesis 6). If the dinosaurs were killed in the flood and covered in silt and sand, would the pressure from the flood be enough to cause them to fossilize in a year? The waters would then recede and they would remain there (or most of them anyway) for at least another 1500 years…This would explain why they are mostly on the same strata of rock wouldn’t it?

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This would mean that dinosaurs would not eat man and that they could live together somewhat peacefully…

would not eat man ???
Dinosaurs were around 60 millions years before man existed… So yeah they would not eat man.

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Let me drop this in. How do we know dinosaurs were around 60 million years before man? How can we know how old they are? From what I can tell, the only way to measure something is to compare it to something known. Like a foot is measured with a ruler and the ruler is known to be a foot because it was measured by a ruler and so on back to the time some king in England said “this is a foot”. Now, we have no idea what is 60 million years old or what is 3000 years old because we have no device that is that old and can be compaired. When science says dinosaurs died 60 million years before humands came, they are basing that on a guess of how old the remains of dinosaurs are. It is a guess, nothing more. Could be that dinosaurs are 6000 years old, not 60 miliion.

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actually, we have “devices” that are older than 60 million years old… half life atomic particles…

So we have a way to measure… It cannot be in any way that dinosaurs are 6000 years old. They use carbon14 measurement to give a pretty good estimate of the age of things.
The theory of a universe inside a universe inside a universe (etc) is fun though :slight_smile: Just like electrons revolve around their atomic proton base, which is something like a universe in itself…
As for me, I can’t grasp the concept of infinity, I don’t think anyone really can though. Our minds are too narrow for that.

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Well we have covered Carbon dating here before…

But then that destroy’s the whole idea of Earth being 5000 years old which was when God created it… So religious people don’t believe in carbon dating.

I can’t get my head around the size of Earth, let alone our solar system… so forget about our Galaxy or Universe… Or Universes as many believe…

Our minds are too narrow for that.

Words I have used many times…

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I don’t necessaryily believe that the Earth is only 5000 years old. I don’t nesseaarily believe that the earth was created in what we know as 6 days now. I don’t discount these ideas either. My point is we don’t know for certain that the carbon in a dinosaur bone is 60 million years old, that is a guess. How do we know the half life of americium-243 is 7,370 years unless 7000 years ago someone started testing it and verified today that is was correct. It is a guess based on things we know today, just as saying the Earth was flat for years based on the things we knew then. Science has had to retract a lot of things over the years as it gets new information, it is just funny to me that with that we still have people saying this is “fact” when there may be varialbes we don’t know yet. Our great, great, great, great grandchildren may prove that we were stupid to belive the stuff we beilive because they have more information.

We can’t grasp the concept of infinity because our minds are too narrow just as many cannot grasp the concept of creation because their minds are too narrow.

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concept of creation because their minds are too narrow.

Narrow minded cave men would get their minds around creation, that god created them. Religion in one form or another has been around since the dawn of man.

Try explain carbon dating to a cave man :smiley:

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Here’s a link on carbon-14 dating that might help…

http://www.creationworldview.org/Articles/Article%2021.htm

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Try explaining that the world in round to a 15th century scientist…we may be saying the same thing about carbon dating in the coming centuries…

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Try explaining that the world in round to a 15th century scientist…

I think if I showed them a model of the solar system and that the Earth is round and rotates around the sun… Hence sun set and sun rise… They would believe it…

However we know what the Church did to one of the first scientists to claim that the Earth wasn’t the centre of this solar system.
Funny how when faced with evidence rather than accept it, they lock someone up to keep it a secret.

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If you took a modle of the solar system to people in the 15th century they would think you are a lunatic. You would have to take them into space and show them with thier own eyes.

If you went around today and said, the universe doesn’t exist and that we are controlled by machines in a virtual world, they would lock you up today. It is not a religious thing, it is society thinking you are insane and might hurt someone.