Israeli military just keeps killing

talk
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and something else:

palestinians do already have a state; it is called jordan and over 60 percent of his inhabitants are palestinian…

why do they need a second one?

and …i had enough also of this labeling of israel as an opressive state…

if it is so opressive, why palestinians do not flee to the other 25 arab countries? i am sure their arab brothers will joyfully help them…

but if they go somewhere else, maybe there will not get free water and electricity as they get now from israel… (because in our too humanistic view we need to help the ‘poor and unfortunate’)

so it seems it is a good business after all to stay in place…maybe overpopulation will bring them finally what noone else could: more humanitarian aid and the moral support of uninformed TV consumers all over the world.

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*Originally posted by Dor *
**if it is so opressive, why palestinians do not flee to the other 25 arab countries? i am sure their arab brothers will joyfully help them… **
They did. Palestinians are in many arab countries, europe, and america… :-\

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i am not talking about a few thousands, ahmed

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im not either

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by Phil Jayhan *
**Dor-

The reason I think people should become christians is because it is the truth well…i think judaism is the truth!

Ok, then who was the Messiah Daniel spoke of that was to come to Israel on April 6th, 6AD? …do u know also the hour and the minute? according to what watch? to eastern time or west coast?

And when have ‘I’ ever burned anyone while preaching love? I cannot recall a single person I have ever burned or killed. :sigh: Not one; So who is it you are speaking of? i was using metaphores…by the way inquisition was a tool of the catholic church…

And if the Law of Moses is so important, then why does not Israel obey this law? Temple worship, daily oblations and sacrifices as well as the other 612 commandments God gave in the law of Moses? well…u might be surprised to find out that each day more and more israelis become totally religious; about the temple practices: there is no temple to do the service in; the temple mount is occupied by the ‘al aktza’ mosque.

the need to ‘convert’ … Well because you don’t understand it, does not make it wrong. i did not say is wrong …i said i am fed up with that, and u should show respect to us and leave us alone with our “stupid” creed…

for your info, judaism does not accept converts so easily as you think, nor seek converts…the converts are rejected 3 times be4 they undergo scholar teachings…and maybe after 1 year of practices they r accepted…although in 50 percent of the cases they are not accepted as jews…

As phar as Davids line and decendants, you will phind that Mary was of that line. Joseph was not, in at least that you are correct.
may b that mary was from the house of david…any case, the paternal line is what counts…

And what of the other 300 prophecies or so that relate to the coming of the Messiah that have been philhilled by another, Jesus? well…if u want to believe water is stone you can do whatever you want. if u want to believe jesus was messiach, good 4 u!

basically all the prophets said the same thing: bad things will happen…well…we already know that, even without prophets…

israel knew 3 diasporas, may b she will know more…1 thing is 4 certain: while empires come and go, religions change and borders too, we will allways exist and we will allways be jewish, like it or not…after all, we were, we are and we will be god’s chosen ones, no matter what …

it seems there is a great level of hositilty in your above posts directed towards me. do u feel hostility? maybe u are not used to criticism…or other opinion than yours.
I hold no ill pheeling or bad will towards you. neither do i, but just as i respect your faith, try to respect mine and stop trying to ‘convert’ me!

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christians are obsessed to convert jews to christianity…it seems we are more important than other nations as converts, in order to give weight to your creed…

nothing new under the sun though…mohammed tried also to convert the jews but he failed too…

also baha’i …

i know the techniques missionaries use phil…i was not born yesterday.

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indeed i am touchy when it comes to my religion…

u brought the subject up, so i had to reply to it. my refference to jesus in my first post was an example of a historical source, it was not intended to bring a theological discussion that is useless

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u need to re-read my posts .

i brought the subject jesus to show from a historical source that jerusalem was jewish as “the king of the jews himself”, jesus was not intended to open any can of worms…

criticism…well…i have to reply when truth is twisted. or when not true things r said.

when it comes to religion i do not think criticism is the way…people should shut up and go on another path

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sorry…what are we talking about ? aaahhh!

religion…

so…
if u insist i will end up the can of worms…

christian teachings:… ’ love your neighbour '=love the roman empire accept other’s occupation of your land, doesn’t matter if u are slaves…heavens r important…so u can return to the situation u had in egypt before god freed u…nothing is important after all; even that he freed u from a similar situation…

don’t keep shabbat …keep it “inside” (how? only jesus knows) eat anything, u can try pork too… circumcizion is not important, it’s just trendy…
“follow my example: 33 y/o not married, not with children”…pretty weird for his times, even 4 today…
“i am the son of god”= forget logic, we can manage without…
what else? …

basically anything that jesus said was very hippie, but for us meant and still means losing the national identity which equals death.
this death is not promised by god, it is life for the sons of israel until the end of times…and it seems god still keeps his promises looking at israel today…
so…christian teachings being too… contrary to our teachings, jesus was rejected too as other many many false mashiachs…

other questions that raise: why pray to statues? or paintings? why having three gods instead of 1? do we not have the first commandment who says " i m your only god?"

but it seems everything is permitted in christian view, even distorting the ten commandments…
but we cannot accept that …at least for ourselves and our sons.

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Dor-

You’re entitled to believe in whatever is it you wanna believe in. But please, have some respect towards others beliefs.

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Dor, buddy!

First of all , I would like u to realise not all christinas want to convert Jews! Second of all , let me say I am big fan of Israel, Big fan of the IDF…n’ stuff.

But I still have to admit that the Palestenians are treated unfairly! You said: Why don’t they flee to other countries! First, look at how you said it: *why don’t the * flee? Not move, or relocate : flee! People don’t flee for fun. And why should they? They have a right to live in their land as much as the Jews in Israel!

Jerusalem. The reasons other cities, like Rome, etc… dont become independant is because no one else claims them! Don’t even start to compare Italian internal affairs with Israel’s they are like night and day! Jeruslam has claims from all over, and its a major flash point. And if you look, the original boundry dosent place it inside Isreal, but only half of it.

You also stated that the barbwires and fences are to keep killers out of Israel! PERFECT lets just keep the killers with the Palestenians! And did you ever think the reason they have those killers its because of the fences. If the palestenians where treated better! But I agree, it still dosent justify bombings of civilian places! But because Israel is the strongest country, I think they should make the first step towards peace. As the State thats in control, they must be the bigger man and istead of looking who is the terrorist, they must look at why are they terrorist. Its not easy, but I am sure Israel can manage.

Israel should help Palestine rebuild. Help it become a its own state, beacause now its a nation without a state. Arafat ain’t too bright, but I dont see him building himself palaces… correct me if I am wrong. And yes some palestenians are trying to buy weapons. But instead of bombing the s*** out of them. Give them something else to do. You cant stop the terrorism by just killing people. You must stop the people from wanting to kill.

“We must all learn to live as brothers, or die as fools!”
- Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

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Dor,

I just read an earlier post. You sound like a pharisee of Jesus’ day…expecting a wordly ruler instead of a Heavenly One.

Jesus is God’s Son. David could not call Jesus Lord in the sense of someone higher than himself, if Jesus was in fact direct blood paternal descended from David. This argument is sound and has been reasoned. According to Jewish tradition; you respect your ancestors - David would not put Jesus in this aura of respect then. This is minor proof yet relevant in the overall picture. Time and time again people set out to disprove Jesus. He was, is, and is to come. He is the Alpha and the Omega.

Every prophecy regarding the Messiah has come true in comparison to Jesus. Every single one.

Capitalize God’s name man! God is not a little “god” like a baal or something. He Is that He Is. Just as you would not dare lower-case Jehovah or Yahweh.

Dor…it’s amazing how hard it is to face solid truth. We are presenting truth. The Word of God is not dead; it is very much alive and speaks to people each in Its own way. If you feel “witnessed” to; it is by the grace of God Almighty that He Himself is whispering to your soul. Our job as Christians is to proclaim the truth. Everyone is given the ability to choose what they believe in. The fact that stereotypes and blunt statements have replaced your otherwise logical posts shows that you are running out of debate room.

Jesus is Lord. Every soul on earth is equally important. Jews are God’s people; but they are by no means the only people Christians witness to.

Also the Catholic church has several ideals that directly contradict the Word of God. After the Romans took over the religion; it became somewhat corrupted in form to fit the needs of the state. There are a few Catholics who throw out the junk in the religion and keep it purely Christian; but they are few and far in between. Priests cannot forgive your sins; yet they preach this. Jesus proclaims that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life - no one comes to the Father except through Him. Some catholics also pray to statues for protection. These statues are saints that specialize in certain areas. This is also wrong. However there are a few Catholics who see Christianity for what it really is.

As far as the Trinity. It is declared several times in the Old Testament that God and Jesus are One in the Same. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. It’s proven time and time again.

Again, as I am reading and responding I am seeing that you still fail to capitalize God. If you hold true your beliefs; you are committing a great sin in not holding reverence for God Almighty.

God is a God of love, and mercy. Did Noah’s great flood happen to you? I mean do you at least believe that? Jesus in the same way is a cleansing promise that God can and will see past whatever you have done wrong. He is showing that He truly is our Father.

God sent a Heavenly ruler…not to save you from the Romans…BUT THAT YOU MIGHT LIVE AND BE SAVED FROM THE BONDAGE OF SIN… FOR IT WAS YOUR SIN THAT HANDED YOU INTO THE ROMANS. GOD IS LONG-TERM NOT SHORT TERM QUICK FIXES.
I could go on and on about this. But length sometimes loses people as they read. I’ll keep it brief for right now.

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^added more…i should just repost instead of edit…you all are too quick on here

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I still find it funny that you guys are arguing using a book that was translated by humans, for the King of England, what about 400 years ago?

If you want to make your points, shouldn’t you be using the original aramaic text? How do you know that the Bible was translated correctly, with the right influctions, etc?

This sort of makes this kind of a moot point then, doesn’t it?

and prstudio: please stop yelling, it doesn’t make you look any more intelligent, just bully-ish (if they won’t read lowercase, what makes you think they will listen to all caps).

JMO

Rev

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Personally I feel people should worship whatever they want…
Whenever its Christian , Jew, Catholic or Islam. It really makes me laugh when they say, we worship Allah, not God. Its the same thing! I mean I don’t see Russians going, we dont worship God we worship our Bog! Or the French, saying they stopped worshiping God, but now worship Diuex! Its the same thing in diffrent languages. And In my point of view most religeons worship the same god. They just follow diffrent rules and call him diffrent things. With the exception of Budhists , where its a sort of meditation, I aint to sure. But think of it, many Ameri-Indians worshipied The Great Spirit, what do u think that is…

When people tell me one God is diffrent from another, I feel the same as when someone is trying to convince me that Democrats are diffrent from Republicans! :stuck_out_tongue:

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wasn’t yelling rev…i guess i could have used bold…just didn’t feel like a normal sentence

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See thats what you beleive, not me.

I beleive its all the same thing under diffrent names, whatever the rules are. I am sure… when someone dies, I don’t think anyone would say… hmm you where a reall good guy, donated, took care of your fellow man, your family… but you didnt beleive in Jesus, so you must go to hell… I really doubt it. And isnt Jesus the forgiver, woulnt he not forgive such a thing? I am sure that at the end its not what we worshiped, but how we led our lives. If a person led a caring life or a thief or murderer.
And I beleive its all a matter of representation. If in arabic Allah means God, its the SAME thing, the beleive Jesus exsited and was a great prophet, yet for them Mohamed was more important. The Koran can be misinterpreted as bad as the bible. In my eyes its all the same thing… and instead of drawing diffrences I rather see similiarities… that way we can coexist, instead of trying to convert one another. I just think for a person should live and worship as he wants, as long as he respects his fellow man, him/herself and nature. And on those facts he will be judged in the afterlife, not on how many holidays he or she respected or what book he or she read…

It seems that Jesus would forgive if people didn’t beleive in him… or though he was of great importance…

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one quick thing before I turn in for the night.

Jesus calls Himself the “Forgiver” in other words.
He also calls Himself the “Only Way” in other words.

How can you believe one and not the other. For if you say one is true and the other is false…then He must contradict Himself; making nothing He says true.

I say He is both.

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Interesting “argument” going on here. I, personally, believe in a greater being (God, if u wish) but have a serious problem with religion. I do not understand why money has to be donated, why buildings and books are needed to prove one’s faith. I find that if one truly believes in one’s soul that guidlines and rules are not needed. Do you think that God actually intended for us to kill each other over how we believe in him? Not likely. Please do not misunderstand - when I say religion I am not referring to the belief itself but the instituion (i.e. churches etc) which to me looks more like a business than a means to enhance one’s faith. They profess to want to help people but please someone explain to me why then do they use all the money they have to build huge expensive buildings and keep huge treasures locked up instead of using them to help the poor. As I said I do believe but I do not consider myself to be so important as to know who or what It/He/She is.
Regarding the conflict between Israel and Palestine I think you are missing the point - religion is just an excuse - unfortunately war has always boiled down to one thing - money. In the past it was more open but now one has to be politically correct and claim they are starting a war for reasons that the population, in today’s modern and “civilised” times, can swallow without guilt i.e. human rights, evil dictator oppressing his people and so on and so on. If you really analyse the situation you will see that there always is an economical reason behind the propaganda. After all, he’s got more than I have or he has something I want so why not go and muscle in and take what I want. And of course war is another way for humanity to vent its testosterone don’t you think?

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___for demonia:
the conflict between israel and the palestinians is not money motivated as you imply. land is the problem. two people want the same piece of land. i wish money was the problem…money problems can be resolved through banks…but ideology and security cannot…
money is not the exclusive reason why wars take place. ideologic reasons, personal ambitions, self defence, preventing future catastrophies are also important factors.

not all religious institutions are the way u describe them…maybe you talk from the bad experience u had with the christian church. but do not generalize…we are not christians.

religious istitutions are important to help people, to teach them, for humanitarian aid or for giving them a guideline, a ‘law’ if u want.
beleiving in one’s soul is a tricky thing…what is happening in the case of criminals?

____to russian beer:
arafat’s palaces ARE a reality, also the fact he’s got in his bank accounts millions of dollars. this while his people is living in poverty and wait for humanitarian aid.
instead of pointing to israel in the issue of changing palestinian’s mentality, u should point to their teaching institutions and tv broadcasts, that say jews don’t have ANY right to live in israel, that we are occupying their land and “martyrdom is the way to jerusalem” (quote arafat). how we can change their mentality when they are taught by their parents that the way to heaven is through bus explosions? do u think they’ll accept ‘foreign teachings’ coming from israel when their religious authorities say jews are “pigs who need to be exterminated”? pure utopia!
they had autonomy, and a state of their own in the foreseeable future. but instead of stopping this war education and prepare palestinians 4 peace and state-building, the second intifada started. we deeply want peace, but peace requires two sides, not just one… and peace without security is nothing else than pointing a gun to ourselves and wait for the boom!

palestinians are NOT a nation without a state. most of them carry jordanian passports from the time jordan had the west bank, and also in jordan 60 percent of the population is palestinian.
i don’t agree with ANOTHER palestinian state just because recent history is still showing us what this mean: just a step to another war against israel. if they are killing israelis now, when they don’t officially have an army, imagine a palestinian state having an army of its own!! do u think miracles happen over night and they’ll turn to peace doves?? i am skeptical…

_____for prstudio: in hebrew there are no capital letters; excuse my lack of respect to “god” without capital letters…it is just a technical thing…
about the truth part: u don’t represent THE truth, just YOUR truth…jesus was not the son of god the same way a dog cannot be the son of a vulcano. he was human. the result of sperm and egg combination. god does not produce sperm…or does he? maybe in your religion. also the WORD cannot take material form. it is an insult to the brains god gave u to use it. but if u need to believe in myths, try greek mythology: zeus became rain and slept with europa… it seems that this idea of god becoming a man is not even original after all…

about the trinity: can u show me where in the ‘old testament’ (as u consider it… old) is it written that god = 3? math is pretty simple, 1 does not equal three… if it was 3 and not 1, why isn’t it stated so in the first commandment? were jews too stupid to understand number three?
also god does not need to ADD new teachings to what he already said. the law on mount sinai was his word. later add-ons that modify that teaching are nothing more than heresy.
god does not send his ‘family’ to be the “negotiator” between him and humankind. we didn’t need another “heavenly ruler” as u stated, but a human one. god is not a heavenly ruler already? do we need another 1? or maybe a family is better than one single person? mesiah = a terrestrial king who frees the people of israel from occupation. jesus was the mashiach? i doubt. by the way…u can see in jerusalem crazy people who r convinced they are the messiah. it is called “jerusalem syndrom” in psychiatric books.

jesus could not be the king of israel. first of all we cannot accept a bastard as a king. (bastard= a person who does not have known father). his personal example in the fields of marriage and having children was not a model to b followed by the house of israel. and the list could go on…

israel’s diaspora is not a consequence of rejection of jesus…it’s rather the result of being conquered by the romans.

what is the sin u are talking about? if this world is a sin, why don’t u commit suicide and go to heavens more quickly?