some speculated that those few civilians with rifles are the ones who sparked the attack on the school and led to the disaster. But we’ll never know for sure, any new information is coming out from the Kremlin, so we’d better be double-checking that… 
some speculated that those few civilians with rifles are the ones who sparked the attack on the school and led to the disaster.
I thought terrorists took the school hostage and threatened the lives of those children?
They did.
What he was talking about it when the military stormed the school to get the terrorists, they might have been trying to save as many people as they could after civilians started trying to take action on their own.
While there are enough blame for the death of the children to go around to just about everyone, from the Russian goverment to the armed parents who Russian Soldeirs described as the “idiotic third force” (Civilians ‘began siege shooting’)
aknatn, I’m sorry to tell you this, but this is one of the most ignorant and stupid comment I have ever read, apart from the other ones you’ve made in this thread. Do you have any idea of what’s happening in Chechnia, or whatever you call it in English? Do you even know where it is?
This makes me really sad because it means that Vladimir Putin’s trick succeeded: Chechens are now officially bad muslim terrorists, and they have to be eradicated 
Well, lets be honest, as much as I am the first to blame Russia, but the atrosities in Chechnya is not all Russians fault, Chechens rebels and terrorists (not the same) are as much to blame for it as the Russian military.
Its hard to say who threw the first stone, as the roots of this conflict can be trased back, for hundreds of years. Russians where fighting there since the early kingdom days, first defending the trade roots, that the chechen-like or some chechen tribes raided.
aknatn, I’m sorry to tell you this, but this is one of the most ignorant and stupid comment I have ever read, apart from the other ones you’ve made in this thread.
Thanks Ilyas, it’s nice to know when your opinion is appreciated.
No I don’t know what the big stink is over there, and perhaps I have jumped in the thread with emotion first and not with an educated model of the situation. For that, I apologize.
BUT - this action, for any reason is unacceptable. The only reason to kill children would be to get those little bastards from children of the corn.
I speak from a side of action, not from a side of understanding. There are those in the world who must seek out and understand the feelings of those who harm others and there are those who feel compelled to punish and seek justice for the offended. Without this ballance the world would be pretty wacked and for all intensive purposes I am one of those who are compelled to seek action against those who threaten peace and humanity.
I digress, I am sorry for the post in which you pointed out, I was just picturing my daughter (who is about the age of those kids) as one of them and how I would react. Tell me what you would do if it was your child who was shot in the back as they ran for their life.
It is sad, violence begets violence.
I would appreciate any other comments you may have.
Russian… moookay. And because Kuwait belonged to Iraq, Iraq waged war on Kuwait.
You know it’s really not that simple to blame it on history… Putin is wrong and has to pull out. Whatever history says. Old Russia is coming apart, it’s a natural cycle in history (empires fall apart), Putin has to let go and make peace with Chechens. The atrocities are NEVER as big when you compare the “invaded” and “invaders” (mark the quotes, huh), there are no Russian civilians in Chechnya.
Aknatn > it’s not like “1 man killed a child because he screamed too much”. The reason is not that futile, you have to look at the greater picture. Could it be that the ones who *“threaten humanity” *are not the ones you think? 
It is hard for me to seperate from the emotional response I have towards this situation, but this quote really got through to me. Thanks Pomme_, I am glad you responded, perhaps I placed too much judgement too soon. It is just so sad :*(
Umm… no, you are comparing apples and oranges, I am just stating that the conflict in chechnya is more complicated then it seems, Im not trying to blame history, I never do, history is just what happened.
Second, there is no Old Russia, you seemed to have the chechen conflict confused with an idea that Putin is doing this “for the glory of the empire”. (While its hard to say what he exacly wants to achieve with chechnya) You have to really understand the conflict not just as an act of invasion, and you must realize that the 1994 to 1996 and the current conflict, are two diffrent wars and conflicts. The first was to prevent independance, which I thought was wrong. Even though chechneya had oil, I didn’t think it was worth the life of a single Russian soldeir, or even chechen, and at the end, Chechechneya was grated defacto independance. the second conflict going on now is diffrent. It was started because of Chechen terrorist inflitrating and launching terrorist operations in Dagestan, which they considered their land. Which is completle wrong. I would be the first to admit it if it was, but popular support is not given to the chechens terrorist who are a violent minority trying to overthrow the goverment. (Annexed in 1812, Re-admited in the federation in 92, by all legal standards its Russian too). Basicaly creating state-sponsored terrorism, and due to that Russia has re-invaded chechnya(while there may be other reasons) So therfore Russia has, and had a choice, let state-sponcored terrorism be used, and fight a defensive war, or take chechneaya and fight an occupation war. While to be honest I am not sure which one is best, I am saying that this conflict is not how you think it is. But I want you to see what the implication are if Russia withdraws. Because technicaly, the Chechen fighters are also the Invaders.
The atrocities are NEVER as big when you compare the “invaded” and “invaders” (mark the quotes, huh), there are no Russian civilians in Chechnya.
First of all you are just wrong, there ARE Russian civilians in Checheneya. Second of all are you trying to say that Russians civilians havent died at the hands of Chechen terrorists? Because I can list you some examples that say otherwise hint this thread.
And finaly who are you to judge what is worse? If a village gets shelled because they think terrorist are there and civilians get killed in the process die, is it worse than a chechen who blows up a subway station on purpose? Is Russian Soldeirs raping female rebels worse than captured soldeirs being sold to slavery? How can you judge what is worse when both are guilty of invasion and atrocity? If one side, be it Russian or Chechen gives in, basicaly that means that the other side got away with the atrocities they commited, and thats not a solution.
My 2 cents is that you do not fight for political advantage by targeting civillians. I don’t care who did it in that past, my argument is that those that intentionally kill civillians because they cannot take a governments army on directly are wrong.
With that said, it dosent matter how chechnya became part of Russia, or if Palestine was created before Israel, or what America has or hasn’t done to the middle east. If you don’t like what a government has done, you fight that government. You do not under any curcumstances kill children or any other third party.
RB> interesting, I didn’t know all that… it’s insightful.
But still, the Beslan school siege was an act of despair. North Ossetia is a Republic that is part of Russia, though I do blame the killing of 350+ persons, Russia has waged a war on Chechnya (who do not want Dagestan anymore, they just want russian troops to pull out, but it seems Putin has a need of this war to keep Russia under his grip…) and Chechens are fighting back - Vladikavkaz, Ossetia’s capital is also the town where Russian Troop Command is based at.
Are you telling me that Russia is not trying to regain control of Chechnya? I’m looking at the last 2 elections, the “elected” russian leaders are puppets controled by the Kremlin. Putin has to pull out and give Chechnya a REAL independance, not a faked one like Ossetia.
BlindLizard> so basically, the biggest army wins? If 350 kids is what it takes to free a country, then make no mistake, those 350 INNOCENT kids will be killed. Warfare is not the same now as it was 250 years ago, when they only met on a battlefield and saluted their enemies before being butchered.
aknatn >> Well, I guess my answer was too emotional (??) as well. It’s just that I know this girl who’s a volunteer in a non-governmental organization which helps young chechens come to France to study, and she told me so many horrible things concerning what’s happening there that I jumped when I read the “Haha! Let’s nuke the bastards!!” comment. It’s hard not to be biased
RB >> That’s really interesting, as it is not at all the vision I had of this war. I’ll do my little research
I want to let everyone know that Islam condems this and that hopefully it does not make the Chechens look bad, i don’t think that the majority of them supported this.
One must remember they took over a theater, they made it clear that they had no intentions of harming the innocent people, all they wanted is the Russians to meet their demands, the Chechens i believe were only responsible for like 1-2 deaths, one of them was a drunk who walked towards the theater, and the Russians were responsible for the deaths of 100+ people.
I heard that 42,000 Chechens kids have died, 300,000 Chechens have died overall, now that is even worse.
Come on, if they hadn’t taken the theater hostage, no one would have died!! Don’t blame the people trying to save the theater… They shouldn’t have needed to be there in the first place.
So you are saying that it is totaly acceptable to target kids directly!!! So a school house is a totaly acceptable battlefield? I would assume you don’t have kids. War is the same today as it was 250 years ago as it was 3000 years ago. Armys fight armys and governments fight governments.
It is not the biggest army wins…there have been many wars in history where smaller armys have beaten back larger armys. America did it in both the war for independence and the war of 1812, The French did it in their war for independence, the Greeks did it in the war for Marathon, the north vietmaneese did it to both america and france. Wars are won not by numbers but by determination of those fighting.
I agree, however, the Chechens wouldn’t have done it if the Russians didn’t do whatever made the Chechens do this.
I agree, however, the Chechens wouldn’t have done it if the Russians didn’t do whatever made the Chechens do this.
What!? 
Well by that standard I can say; The Russians wouldn’t have done what they did to make the Chechens do what they did, if the chechens didnt make the Russians do what they did.
Get it!?
And it goes on, but the Chechens have bigger number of casualties and i believe that they are not the bad ones.
I won’t disagree with you on wether Russia is “bad” or not. The point is, the parents and children in that school, and the people on the 2 planes, and the people in the nightclub have/had nothing to do with the problem in Chechnya. I lose a lot of care of a groups problems when they decide to kill innocent people because thier lives suck…