we have a good lot of trees, certainly a lot more than you do… thanks for asking 
*Originally posted by Guig0 *
**we have a good lot of trees, certainly a lot more than you do… thanks for asking**
careful Guigo…
we aren’t cutting down thousands of acres of forrest every day, just to graze cattle…
We won’t even mention the shanty towns that many people die each year, just trying to “pirate” electricity to their home from the main power lines going over their town…
Rev
Haha 
i always laugh at that distorted stereotyped image you guys have about Brasil…
…sorry rev, but you´re way wrong.
if you don´t know, Brasil has the best preservation system of the world, that´s not me saying… it´s UN
and the second part… dude i´ve never heard of it. it may have happened, but it´s not a common thing.
Guigo:
Case Study - Sao Paulo, Brazil
Sao Paulo is a city located on Brazil’s south-east coast. It is Brazil’s largest city with a population of approximately 25 million. The population of Sao Paulo has grown for a number of reasons. Natural Increase is one reason for its growth (this is when the birth rate is higher than the death rate). The population has also grown as the result of urbanisation. The has been caused by rural to urban migration. Millions of people have migrated from Brazil’s rural areas to Sao Paulo. In Sao Paulo 65% of urban growth is a result of migration. This is caused by a variety of push and pull factors.
The rapid growth of Sao Paulo’s population has led to a severe shortage of housing. <b>Millions of people have been forced to construct their own homes from scrap materials such as wood, corrugated iron and metals. These areas of temporary accommodation are known as favelas in Brazil. </b>
The conditions associated with favelas are very poor. Often families have to share one tap, there is no sewerage provision, disease is common and many people are unemployed.
Favelas are located on the edge of most major Brazilian cities. They are located here for a number of reasons. Firstly, this is the only available land to build on within the city limits. Secondly, industry is located on the edge of the cities. Many people need jobs therefore they locate close to factories.
Some of these settlements may be 40 or 50 km from the city centre (on the edge of the city), along main roads and up very steep hillsides.
then on the deforrestation of the Rain Forrest:
A 20-year study has shown that deforestation and introduction of non-native species has led to about 12.5% of the world’s plant species to become critically rare. (In fact, as an example, a study suggests that the Amazon damage is worse than previously thought, due to previously undetected types of selective logging and deforestation.)
A report from the World Commission on Forests and Sustainable Development suggests that the forests of the world have been exploited to the point of crisis and that major changes in global forest management strategies would be needed to avoid the devastation.
If you have never heard of the Shanty towns (and the people who pirate electricity for their families), and how they have no electricity, or water (over 1 million people just around Rio) then you are the ones with misconceptions…
Rev
and this from the RainForrest Action Network:
Around the world, old growth forests are falling at an alarming rate. Reports indicate that burning in the Brazilian Amazon has increased 28 percent since 1996.
and
Global Rates of Destruction (1)
2.4 acres (1 hectare) per second: equivalent to two U.S. football fields
149 acres (60 hectares) per minute
214,000 acres (86,000 hectares) per day: an area larger than New York City
78 million acres (31 million hectares) per year: an area larger than Poland <b>
In Brazil
5.4 million acres per year (estimate averaged for period 1979-1990) (2)
6 - 9 million indigenous people inhabited the Brazilian rainforest in 1500 In 1992, less than 200,000 remain. (3)
Species Extinction
Distinguished scientists estimate an average of 137 species of life forms are driven into extinction every day; or 50,000 each year. </b>
Projected Economic Value of One Hectare in the Peruvian Amazon
$6,820 per year if intact forest is sustainably harvested for fruits, latex, and timber
$1,000 if clear-cut for commercial timber (not sustainably harvested)
$148 if used as cattle pasture
While you were reading the above statistics, approximately 149 acres of rainforest were destroyed. Within the next hour approximately 6 species will become extinct. While extinction is a natural process, the alarming rate of extinction today, comparable only to the extinction of the dinosaurs, is specifically human-induced and unprecedented. Experts agree that the number one cause of extinction is habitat destruction. Quite simply, when habitat is reduced, species disappear. In the rainforests, logging, cattle ranching, mining, oil extraction, hydroelectric dams and subsistence farming are the leading causes of habitat destruction. Indirectly, the leading threats to rainforests ecosystems are unbridled development, funded by international aid-lending institutions such as the World Bank, and the voracious consumer appetites of industrialized nations. If deforestation continues at current rates, <b>scientists estimate nearly all tropical rainforest ecosystems will be destroyed by the year 2030.</b>
my point is, everyone has their numbers, just who do you want to believe…
I know for a fact that millions of people do not live in Shanty towns just outside New York, or Los Angeles, or even Washington DC… And in Brazil, these people have 0% hope of changing their lifestyles, and their children have the same, since there are no schools, police, or any civil help whatsoever…
Rev
Rev let me ask you something you have asked me before:
When was the last time you visited Brazil?
The shanty thang doesn´t mean anything for me, if you have used the word favela i would get your point.
If you come to pay a visit to a favela, you will be incredibly amazed. The situation in most cases are not that bad, and remember you´re talking about a third wolrd country.
In favelas ppl don´t die just trying to “pirate” electricity to their home everyday like you said so, coz in most cases they have free water and electricity given by the state.
And the living conditions are (not very, but) close to the trailler-houses you got there.
The situation in Amazônia, is completly different. Offcourse the deforestation is happening, it is an enourmous area, and that makes hard to guard. But Brasil has the most rigid and severe ecologic law system in the world, and the highest decline rate of deforestation.
Brasil is the largest country in South America with nearly half of the South American continent falling within Brazilian borders. The vast Southern area is covered by the Amazon basin, including the largest remaining tropical forest in the world.
This immense tract of jungle covers a third of Brazil’s total land mass.
Brasil also has a second forested area, known as the Atlantic rainforest.The remaining Atlantic rainforest recently set a world record for tree species density, with 450 species of trees coexisting in one 2.5 acre plot of land.
We have the biggest supply of mineral water of the american continent, the largest forest in the world, we produce 95% of the oil consumed, the biggest biodiversity of the american continent, and so on…
Believe me, Brasil has a lot more natural resources than US does, and on top of that we exploit it a lot less…
See? i´m not the one with misconceptions
rev, if you have a 100 acres farm and decide to burn 50 acres of it, and at the same time i decide to do the same, burning 50 acres of my 1,000 acres farm, who burn more land?
Now put that on % 
got it :q:
it all depends on who you believe.
Are you saying that Brazil doesn’t rape the Tropical Rainforrests?
and the State does not give all these favela’s free water and electricity… I just saw a documentary on this very subject last week (on average the life expectancy of a person who pirates the electricity for his favela is around 1.5 years)…
Their life is not even close to the “trailers” you speak of (I have lived in a trailer myself) 
this is being given water and electricity by the state? Rio is just kilometers away, with Resorts and Beaches that these people will never see…
and 3rd world should not be brought up, if you continue to compare Brazil to USA… If we have the problems we do, it is because we guarantee a certain lifestyle to our citizens…
Also, just because Brazil has more resources does not mean that they are not exploiting them…
True, I haven’t been to Brazil lately, but have you been to USA recently?
My point again, is who do you want to believe?
Personally, I think <i>favelas</i> are an atrocity that Brazil has to eliminate. In America, we do not have millions of people living in homes made of scrap wood, without water or electricity living within kilometers of our largest Cities… Not to mention the living standards of those not even close to the Cities…
Who you gonna believe?
You have very strong opinions on the way the USA handles itself, yet seem to turn a blind eye to the millions in your country who don’t even have the opportunity to go to school…
misconceptions indeed…
Rev
*Originally posted by Guig0 *
**rev, if you have a 100 acres farm and decide to burn 50 acres of it, and at the same time i decide to do the same, burning 50 acres of my 1,000 acres farm, who burn more land?
Now put that on % 
got it 
**
do you have any figures on how much forrest is eliminated by Brazil, and how much forrest is replanted?
That… is my point. Just because you have more to start with is no reason to exploit it…
Rev
rev, if you look back, you begun to compare Brazil to USA.
Comparing Brasil to USA is cowardice… Brasil will lose badly. I know that. I´m very aware of the social reality of Brasil.
If you look harder you´ll notice that i never said Brasil isn´t raping the Tropical Rainforrests. I just said that Brasil raped a lot less than any country, including USA.
I believe this all started when gp made a comnet about how many trees Brasil has, and i replied in the same manner (so far no one got hurt)… then came you and start to compare Brasil to USA…
… you´re trying to start a fight with me just because i posted my thoughts about USA (those before the trees thing), and you can´t handle it, but i´ll not fall for that.
Ok rev, you won, you know a lot more about Brasil than i do. Happy? Is that what you wanna hear?
Ps: i´ll not post in this thread anymore.
don’t be a poor sport.
I’m just making a point that you believe what you find, I do the same. You said I had misconceptions about Brazil, I was showing the sources of my info.
The reason I jumped in, is because you have been giving a “holier than thou” kind of attitude with regards to anything the USA is involved in. I just wanted to point out that we all have things in our own country to be ashamed of…
I am not competitive (even ask abzoid, I have never been competitive), so winning is not my goal. If you need to have a winner, then fine. I am not upset, I am just trying to get you to see that the info you get is not always the best source, same as my sources are not always the most factual…
However, in this issue, you are wrong… This is where you started the comparison (not me):
we have a good lot of trees, certainly a lot more than you do… thanks for asking
I still want to see the stats on this… I am curious to see how much more you do have (I grew up in huge vasts of forrests, and the entire Northern portion of our country is covered in forrests…
Rev
The Lungs
Brazil’s rainforest, under normal circumstances, act as the “lungs” of the earth releasing oxygen and absorbing as much as 700 million tons of carbon dioxide every year. But, in a recent comprehensive study conducted by Hanqin Tian, he found that during the confusing effects of El Niño, the rainforest becomes dry and releases excess of 200 million tons of carbon dioxide a year.
The study focused on three El Niño episodes from 1980 to 1994. It did not include calculations from the severe El Niño episode in 1997-98, but there is still a steady pattern, said researchers.
Scientists say that understanding the Earth’s unstable carbon cycle is the key to accurately predicting and managing global warming .
During El Niño, a large section of the equatorial Pacific warms and expands and upsets weather patterns around the world. In the Amazon, it causes severe droughts.
**The Amazon Rainforest consumes 58% of Brazil.
More Than 20% of the world’s oxygen is produced in the Amazon Rainforest**
Published on Monday, February 17, 2003 by the lndependent/UK
Warning Over Loss of Amazon Forest
by Steve Connor, Science Editor, in Denver
One of the world’s leading experts on climate change has predicted that rising global temperatures could destroy the Amazon rainforest, which in turn would cause a catastrophic build-up of carbon dioxide further accelerating global warming.
Tom Wigley, of the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, warned of the dangers that would occur if the world’s biggest rainforest was lost – most likely as the result of lower rainfall levels over the Amazon basin that would occur in a warmer world.
In such a scenario, not only will the Earth have lost a major storage of carbon but it will lead to a huge release of carbon dioxide and methane, which are two of the most destructive greenhouse gases.
Such a model is called a positive-feedback mechanism, and although climatologists think it is a likely scenario, it is hard to predict accurately.
“It is very uncertain. Modelling the climate is difficult. Modelling the interactions between climate and vegetation is even more difficult,” said Professor Wigley.
He added that it was important to start moving away from fossil fuels now rather than leaving it for future generations to deal with.
I understand that Brazil has a lot of forrests…
I just want to see actual stats of how much land is covered by forrests in Brazil, and in USA…
When you start talking of ecological percentages, the author of those stats will stack them in their favor. Either side…
Again, how much land in Brazil is covered by Forrest, and how much land in USA is covered by forrest. Then how much land is replanted with trees in USA vs Brazil…
I’m curious is all (I’m fairly certain Brazil has more land in Forrests)…
Rev
Size of Brazil Rain Forest (Amazon)=4,936,940
Size of USA = 9,629,091
all measures are in sqr Km
note that Brazil has others forests that are not computated.
[EDIT]:
Amazon only, makes more that a half of USA. if you add the others forests…
good info: size chart
so is that the area of forest in USA, or whole Country?
Rev
the whole country. infact USA is slightly larger than Brasil.
that I understand.
I am having a hard time locating any facts on how much land is occupied by forests in the US (I have a feeling you will be surprised by how much forestland we have, especially if you include the National Park system, along with the State Parks, which can’t be cut down at all)… I mean the entire states of Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Northern Idaho, Montana, Minnesota, etc. is literally covered with large trees…
that is why I am curious.
Rev
Why are talking about forests on a thread that involves ‘military killing’? I say, stop hugging trees! And lets all be freinds!
No need to fight over this…
Thread split =)
*Originally posted by RussianBeer *
**Why are talking about forests on a thread that involves ‘military killing’? I say, stop hugging trees! And lets all be freinds!
No need to fight over this… **
we aren’t fighting RB… I’m just looking for facts about deforestation… trying to put a little perspective on ecological/social issues…
Rev
