NEW YORK (CNN) – The Freedom Tower to be built at the site of the devastated World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan is still planned as the world’s tallest building, according to a revised model unveiled Friday by the architects collaborating on its design.
THE REST OF THE ARTICLE:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/12/19/wtc.plan/index.html
Its being planned at 1,776 feet. The year we signed the declaration of Independance. How balls is that?!
Its looks incredible.
*Originally posted by asphaltcowboy *
**you don’t think it’s somewhat tacky and unoriginal, k-man? **
Hey, Bush wanted to call it “The Tower of Light” … after his father…
Rev
If he wanted to name it after his father, why not call it “Pillock of lig-”… I mean… um… Pillar! “PILLAR of Light” 
*Originally posted by Marz *
**E-gads… Black… You do indeed got yourself a fine ladyCHEERS to that…
Feisty, I’m guessing red hair and loves her rum…
Gah… You better hold on to her mate lmao **
Haha, will do, thanks Marz. And a fine lady she is indeed.
EthanM: it’s not a straw man because I never made any statement about “the choices our leader is making.”
But I will have to remember to give a full response later. As for now, I’m off to make my parents see “The Last Samurai.” Great movie and I highly recommend it. 
*Originally posted by BlackKnight-DY- *
**But I will have to remember to give a full response later. As for now, I’m off to make my parents see “The Last Samurai.” Great movie and I highly recommend it.
are you going with them to see it? or are you just forcing them out the door and checking that they make it to the cinema ok?
*Originally posted by EthanM *
**First, I wasn’t bashing I was arguing. Which is sometimes thought to be a form of intellectual conversation.
And while ADP might have been appealing to an inapropriate authority, you are appealing to our ignorance. Simply because there is not a country that has more freedom that the US doesn’t make it the ideal for freedom.
You are stating that being ashamed of America and not taking the time to realize why this country is so great are analogous things, but you haven’t given any premises to support your analogy.
Your argument about taking freedoms for granted is a straw man. Because we have the right to play GTA has no relation to whether or not a person is dissapointed with the choices our leader is making.
Trying to use the fact that there are worse things to be called than American doesn’t stand up as a sound premise to the conclusion that America is a great country. There are many other reasons that it is.
I’ve done my homework and I’ve thought a long time about it. And sometimes I’m ashamed to be an American. **
Ethan, you are my friend, so don’t take this like I’m trying to attack you. And I am not saying this because I’m trying to take BK’s side because I’m with him or anything. I am in fact saying this because I agree with him. So here goes:
First of all, I am sure that his comments weren’t specifically directed to you, APD, or anyone else, in an attacking way, but a statement in general about that type of thinking. True, some of the points were obviously sparked by the things that several of you said, but he wasn’t (nor was I) trying to say ‘you guys suck’ or whatnot.
Secondly, I think the main thing that is bothering, him, me, and anyone else that got upset, is the statement “sometimes im ashamed to be an american”
i do see your points, and i agree with you, and i really don’t liek a lot of the things that our govornment does, or certian politicians. but instead of beign ashamed of being an american, im simply embarrased that we have such dolts leading the country. i don’t feel responsible for those dolts though, and in my opinion, feeling ashamed for someone else’s actions is taking more responsibility then you should. aside form the personal issues, i just think it conveys a worse image of us to other countries then if we said, “yes, said politician is stupid, but i do not agree, and i will instead take actions to make everything better, instead of feeling ashamed of my country” i just see a big difference between being ashamed of my country and being upset with the head cheese’s actions. like i said, i do understand what you mean, but that is the way i approach the issue.
don’t condemn the whole for a few’s corruption. i know you weren’t in your heart, but it seemed as if you were saying that, and not specifically you, but a LOT of people do that. and i know that it would upset you just as it upsets me, so you can see how that is a sore spot for some people.
*Originally posted by asphaltcowboy *
**who the hell thought that up? could anyone have thought up a more preposterous, cheap, unoriginal and tacky name? maybe that could be a new thread - if you have to come up with a cheap and tacky name for a tower, what would it be? **
i really don’t think that its tacky. our country is built on freedom. freedom is an ultimate in the hearts of americans. it means a lot to us, and in light of the circumstances surrounding the tower, i think it is an adequate way to express our emotions on the issue as well.
but… but they’re gonna call it “Freedom Tower” fgs… sure, freedom may be a big thing… but c’mon… you just can’t call a tower, “Freedom Tower”… sounds like something out of a badly-written children’s fantasy novel! it’s… it’s just against the Rules of Tower-Naming™ :-\
Why not call it Isengard or something? 
hahahahahahhahahaha, dude, i agree that Isengard would be sooo much cooler.
No no no, Orthanc, not Isengard =p
I’ll bet a certain discount superstore would pay to name it…
[size=7]The Target Tower[/size]
[size=1]someone had to say it[/size]
Rev
wow. 10 points to rev :beam:
My late response to what you said Ethan, although it’s rather irrelevant now.
*Originally posted by EthanM *
**
And while ADP might have been appealing to an inapropriate authority, you are appealing to our ignorance. Simply because there is not a country that has more freedom that the US doesn’t make it the ideal for freedom.
**
I believe I said something to the effect of “It is true that it is not ideal, but that doesn’t mean it’s horrible either.” I conceded the fact that the US is not ideal for freedom and I was not appealing to ignorance.
**
You are stating that being ashamed of America and not taking the time to realize why this country is so great are analogous things, but you haven’t given any premises to support your analogy.
**
You’re correct in that I did not clarify. What I was simply stating was that if you have a gripe about our country in some way (be it a politician, the president, a certain action taken by our government, a law that was passed, whatever), then you should stick to the thing you have a gripe about and not mushroom it into “the entire country is the problem.” To say, “I’m ashamed to be an American” is essentially saying, “at this time I don’t want to be an American / I wish I was not an American.” So, when things go your way, you’re gung ho about being an American, and when they don’t, you wish you weren’t one (If it were the case that you were always ashamed of being an American, then you probably wouldn’t live here, not just muse about it). The problem with this attitude is that it is unhelpful. Problems with institutions don’t get solved by blaming the institution for someone’s practice. For example, if a priest in the clergy molests a child, that is not a fault of the instution of Catholicism, it is a fault of the practice of an individual within that institution. If you were a Catholic at the time of the incident, to say, “I’m ashamed to be Catholic” is to misunderstand the problem. You are throwing the blame upon the institution for the perverted acts of one (or several) individuals.
In short, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
**
Your argument about taking freedoms for granted is a straw man. Because we have the right to play GTA has no relation to whether or not a person is dissapointed with the choices our leader is making.
**
That is incorrect. It is not a straw man for a couple of reasons. Number one, that portion of what I said was not really relevant to my argument. At that point, I was not really making any claims. It was simply a statement made to make one reflect upon some of the freedoms we take for granted, down to silly, simply things, like video games we can buy. Furthermore, I never made any claims or statements in regards to our leader or his choices.
**
Trying to use the fact that there are worse things to be called than American doesn’t stand up as a sound premise to the conclusion that America is a great country. There are many other reasons that it is.
**
I did not say that there are worse things to be CALLED than an American, I said there are worse things that you could BE than an American, meaning that if you are ashamed of what you are, then you might consider how ashamed you might be if you were a citizen of a different country. Again, I think you misunderstood me. I was not arguing that America is a great country. I was arguing that if you are an American and you choose to live under the roof of the U.S. of A, then you should not be going around saying you are ashamed to be an American.
he was away for a logn time being tortured by his family in the movies
well, he had some valid points to address in the spirit of clarification, and i think he had every right to bring it up again 
specially since it has become sort of the topic. specially since things have cooled down and we’re all cozy again.
mm. sugarplums and molson
:beam: keep the cheeze, trade the ritz for triscuits :happy sigh:
ok, how about this… smoked cheese, and those cool crackers with the seeds, ya know, the long ones
hehehehe
*Originally posted by BlackKnight-DY- *
**I just wanted to share with you, Mr. APDesign…
Ok, I don’t know what type false authority you pulled out of my statement about my experiences… but I’ll let you in on a little secret… I’m a 19 year old white middle class slacker that lives in a suburb of a large city. My “experiences” just mean every thing I have read about, everything I have seen, and everything I have thought about for long amounts of time in my basement while working on little flash programs that don’t matter anyway. I was in no way trying to gain a blind advantage over anyone. (if that whole thing seemed ‘attacking’ it wasn’t meant to - just letting everyone know where I’m coming from (nowhere.)) Also, you took my “ashamed to be an American” comment as me being “anti-American” which isn’t true at all, I don’t know what else to say about that… I’ll try to clarify my statement in some weird analogy like thing that probably still won’t make sense.
When I was in high school (not to long ago) I would constantly witness boys my age harass women. Sometimes it was little thing that the girls probably didn’t even care about, and sometimes it was pretty big things (ie: touching) and the girls would laugh and giggle, the boys would walk away and then the smile would melt off their face as they continued on to their next class, where they would be objectified again by another *******. That kind of stuff really pisses me off and makes me ashamed to be a man. Every girl I talk to instantly has the feeling that I’m trying to get into her pants.
THAT is how I am sometimes “ashamed to be an American.”
