*Originally posted by EthanM *
**First, I wasn’t bashing I was arguing. Which is sometimes thought to be a form of intellectual conversation.
And while ADP might have been appealing to an inapropriate authority, you are appealing to our ignorance. Simply because there is not a country that has more freedom that the US doesn’t make it the ideal for freedom.
You are stating that being ashamed of America and not taking the time to realize why this country is so great are analogous things, but you haven’t given any premises to support your analogy.
Your argument about taking freedoms for granted is a straw man. Because we have the right to play GTA has no relation to whether or not a person is dissapointed with the choices our leader is making.
Trying to use the fact that there are worse things to be called than American doesn’t stand up as a sound premise to the conclusion that America is a great country. There are many other reasons that it is.
I’ve done my homework and I’ve thought a long time about it. And sometimes I’m ashamed to be an American. **
Ethan, you are my friend, so don’t take this like I’m trying to attack you. And I am not saying this because I’m trying to take BK’s side because I’m with him or anything. I am in fact saying this because I agree with him. So here goes:
First of all, I am sure that his comments weren’t specifically directed to you, APD, or anyone else, in an attacking way, but a statement in general about that type of thinking. True, some of the points were obviously sparked by the things that several of you said, but he wasn’t (nor was I) trying to say ‘you guys suck’ or whatnot.
Secondly, I think the main thing that is bothering, him, me, and anyone else that got upset, is the statement "sometimes im ashamed to be an american"
i do see your points, and i agree with you, and i really don’t liek a lot of the things that our govornment does, or certian politicians. but instead of beign ashamed of being an american, im simply embarrased that we have such dolts leading the country. i don’t feel responsible for those dolts though, and in my opinion, feeling ashamed for someone else’s actions is taking more responsibility then you should. aside form the personal issues, i just think it conveys a worse image of us to other countries then if we said, “yes, said politician is stupid, but i do not agree, and i will instead take actions to make everything better, instead of feeling ashamed of my country” i just see a big difference between being ashamed of my country and being upset with the head cheese’s actions. like i said, i do understand what you mean, but that is the way i approach the issue.
don’t condemn the whole for a few’s corruption. i know you weren’t in your heart, but it seemed as if you were saying that, and not specifically you, but a LOT of people do that. and i know that it would upset you just as it upsets me, so you can see how that is a sore spot for some people.